Star Trek vs. Star Wars

[Lord Vespasian]

Originally Posted by Brellin

Republic citizens won't cry out for their sons and daughters dying because they aren't, the clones are.

"Conscription, however, was a necessary reality. Countless beings of every species became draftees into the Grand Army of the Republic." - New Essential Chronology

We also have quite a few examples of the pre-Clone Wars Republic military, and people who served in the Clone Wars, so it's not like it was just clones vs. droids.

[Brellin]

Granted, it's not "just" clones, but the major battles we see are basically fought between disposable soldiers and droids. While support and infastructure might actually be run/built by non-clones that doesn't mean they were actually fighting. IMO it's more likely that any non-clone casualties are more likely to be from colloatoral damage from the various fleets and armies fighting one another.

[General Schatten]

Originally Posted by Mr. Oragahn

Hey, nice seeing Star Wars wankers recruiting.

Oh, Oragahn, I'm so happy to see that after being away for a year you're still a bitter loser who can't get over how all those mean Warsie's wouldn't let you get away with your bad arguments and faulty maths.

[Lord Vespasian]

Originally Posted by Brellin

Granted, it's not "just" clones, but the major battles we see are basically fought between disposable soldiers and droids.

By and large, yes. But it's not the first time something that should be rather visible isn't. For example, when was the last time you ever saw the Imperial Army?

While support and infastructure might actually be run/built by non-clones that doesn't mean they were actually fighting. IMO it's more likely that any non-clone casualties are more likely to be from colloatoral damage from the various fleets and armies fighting one another.

There are examples of non-clones in direct combat, and not just commanding officers like Pellaeon, Needa, Screed, and Yoularen. There's a 50k force that gets wiped out in Jedi Trial, and Red Leader in the ANH novel tells Luke he served under Anakin. In Shatterpoint, the original batches of clones are said to have been dispersed to help train new recruits. And then there's the non-clone bridge crew of the Venator in ROTS's Death Star scene.

Furthermore, there's all the planetary militaries to take into account, and going back to the NEC quote, it's a bit of a strech to say "countless beings" were conscripted to serve as support staff.

[Mith]

Originally Posted by star wars wins

I think this thread may be a bannable offense and the obligatory use the search function

...Why? Why can't someone post an ST vs. SW debate?

Hell, I don't think we've had a decent one since the new clone wars series came out and there was a whole shit storm of a thread(s) about it.

Originally Posted by Zelinko

Did you even BOTHER using the search function?

At least I get to use this picture again

...Why? What is so stupid about the question?

Originally Posted by Entilza

Star Wars due to one ISD being able to take on the entire UFP fleet on its own.

No it can't. Watching Empire Strikes Back or Downfall of a Droid, ISDs can't take on asteroid fields without coming out of it with a bloody nose.

Originally Posted by Brellin

Next time please use the search funtion before you post something like this. Seriously.

What is wrong with the thread? When was the last ST vs. SW thread?

Originally Posted by Zelinko

Why are we feeding the troll?
Also

Why is he a troll? Does he do trollish things and this in a long line of it?

Funny though.

Originally Posted by Stargazer

Seriously, where have you been for the past 10 years or so? Which side wins has been a foregone conclusion.

...No it isn't.

Star Wars wins hands down, especially with the "canon" ICS turbolaser yield numbers. Even without, the Empire outclasses Trek. The Empire has ships that can devastate entire planet surfaces by themselves in an hour, along with the industrial capacity to occupy the galaxy with said ships and create planet-destroying superlasers. The Federation just can't stand up to that.

No they can't.

Those turbolaser yields are a load of bullcrap when their generals ignore the idea of just vaporizing entire asteroids to get to the targets, but instead just decide to plant walkers with tank level firepower to fire at the warship's unshielded backside. Hell, the fact that we don't see entire shots from these ships when they hit each other leaving a massive fireball is rather fucking conclusive when both fighters, bombers, AND walker-tanks with considerably much lower yields are taking them out.

Originally Posted by General Schatten

If you're talking about ISD it takes three to glass a planet in an hour, any of the Star Battlecruisers and Star Dreadnaughts, however, could probably do it in an hour.

Again, no they can't. Thus far, the highest level yields we have are in the low MT range thanks to the novels based off the movies, which could just be written off as hyberbole if one really wanted to be dickish. We've seen two encounters where capital ships engage each other in atmosphere and there was absolutely zero in the way of shockwaves or big mushroom clouds. The relevant sources would be Star Was: The Clone Wars (movie) and Jedi Crash.

Originally Posted by avatar11792

The Empire has superior manpower, ship numbers,

Because millions is suddenly larger than billions?

Even the CIS, which outnumbered the Clones a hundred to one, were in the millions of ranges. The UFP has been suggested to suffer 40-900 billion during warcase scenarios.

firepower,

No they haven't. Sorry, but a few splat books that goes against just about every other source is not a reasonable representation of Star Wars.

shield tech,

The shield tech that can be apparently overcome by a couple dozen of fighters during the invasion of Ryloth?

armor,

That's damaged by firepower on par with tanks?

sublight tech,

Beach whales have comparable speed. Seriously, those fighters are moving rather slow for fighters and even they do incredibly well.

FTL tech,

Granted.

and generally tech in general.

No...just no.

Trek has a few interesting goodies and assloads of superweapons, but in terms of consistent high-end firepower and logistics it always land with the Imperials.

Not really. The UFP clearly doesn't use a great deal of stuff that would make them much stronger, but it's also rather observed that most crews can basically pull bullshit bullshit out of their ass and save themselves with the most absurd tricks. Hell, even the short bus Voyager crew managed to make it back to the UFP in seven years.

The Empire has at least a million planets under some sources, lots more than that in others.

Yes, which is why their senator population in the Old Republic was in the hundreds.

"The EU expands this to 50 million, when one factors in non-member systems, resource colonies, and outposts." (from Aratech)

And most of those planets have low populations, are shit holes, and half the time don't give a fuck what anyone else wants. No really. Even Ryloth, with I think was below number 50 on their targeted planets for invasion, was mostly covered in jungle, wastelands, and even a major city looked little more advanced than most dark aged castles. In fact, we see the droid fighters carpet bombing a bloody village. Hell, if GT firepower was common, why carpet bomb? Send fighters in pairs all over the planet to just use low KT or MT bombs and it'll work much better.

The Federation covers 8000 light-years and has something like a few hundred member worlds in it. Color me not impressed.

As well as well over 900 billion people they could lose in a war.

ISDs slag planets into molten goo with an hour to work on them,

Which is why instead of planting tons of tank-level armed walkers hidden on asteroids, praying to god that the enemy is stupid enough to leave its flank unprotected and doesn't bother redirecting the shields when the trap is sprung, they vaporized the asteroid field with hundreds of Gt level bo--oh, wait that's exactly the opposite of what happened.

Nevermind.

and some calcs whittle their power up to very high multi-gigaton levels.

All of which comes from three books written by the same guy.

The Star Wars ICS confirms this, stating 200gt shots from Acclamator-class troop transports, and multi-teraton shots from heavy turbolasers on ISDs.

Which is funny considering that Acclamators aren't even armed. How do they fire such awesome, planet shattering firepower? Through a squirt gun attached to hyper-fluid created in a remote part of the Old Republic. It's an organic, sticky fluid that ships out six billion gallons a week.

It's called SD.com.

The Federation's most advanced weapons (phasers and photon torpedoes) are rate at the sub-kiloton and multi-megaton range respectively, w/photon torpedoes at something like 50 megatons and quantum torpedoes at 60-ish megatons.

Please. Enterprise era torpedoes are rated at 50 megatons, thanks to handy quotes from the characters from the series. An old style Constitution class starship from TOS (USS Defiant) was easily able to take out four warships at the time, as well as take direct fire from the Avenger without any shields or SIF without so much as a scratch.

Ships from that era, even uprated ones, were raped by a 24th century mining ship.

Oh, and ISDs are roughly 1.5 kilometers in length, while the Sovereign, the Fed's biggest ship, is something like 700-800 meters.

My cock is bigger than your cock, my cock is much larger than yours is...

Really, what has size got to do with anything?

So...outnumbered, outgunned, and out-maneuvered (SW hyperdrive beats ST warp easily), everybody in ST eventually dies.

Despite the fact that the Imperials have no idea where they're going, have internal issues, have mildly retarded leaders willing to pump absurd amount of funds into a station the size of a moon rather than just building much smaller assault platforms that could take down the "planetary shields" that for some reason the government isn't in charge of.

The only this gets interesting in VS debates is if you throw in interesting modifications to the base scenario, like the Feds have 100 years to analyze an ISD adrift or something and if they magically devote all of their resources to stopping the Imperials who they somehow know are magically arriving in 100 years, and even then their odds are 50-50.

Right.

Also, as so many SBers have mentioned this scenario has been done to death. Go to Google and type "Star Trek versus Star Wars, spacebattles.com" into it (literally just as I typed it, and you'll come up with SO MANY THREADS.

And...so what?

Originally Posted by Mr. Oragahn

Hey, nice seeing Star Wars wankers recruiting.

It's what they do.

Originally Posted by evilauthor

The Star Wars fire power wanking also pretty much requires the Wars side to act in ways never seen in the films.

"LOL, lone ISDs can slag planets in an hour!"

"Then why all the big ground battles with high concentrations of troops rushing each other when they can be annihilated with a few shots?"

"Um..."

To be fair, they do have reasons to not just bombard the planet in many cases, but the whole moon sized station is just stupid. Especially when a) the military should hold the keys to the planetary shields and b) the empire could just build smaller assault platforms with less power just to bust down the shields.

[Mith]

Originally Posted by General Schatten

Oh, Oragahn, I'm so happy to see that after being away for a year you're still a bitter loser who can't get over how all those mean Warsie's wouldn't let you get away with your bad arguments and faulty maths.

Yes, because lacking massive explosions in atmosphere when two capital ships are blasting the shit out of each other is clearly evidence of GT level firepower.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Originally Posted by Zelinko

Why are we feeding the troll?
Also

In during the lock.

[Aratech]

Mith, you know as well as anyone on this board that there is a search function, and that a user is expected to see if a topic has been done before before posting something. Especially something so hackneyed as this. Stop defending his noobish mistake.