Batman vs. Solid Snake

[CuriousStranger]

Umm, I would like to point out that the OP says that Snake is in his prime. Or rather 'Peak Physical and Mental Condition'

That said, Batman would still win.

[LT_Ryguy]

Originally Posted by Dessolution

Can you show me proof of when Batman has even been beaten by random mooks before? Because I would love to see that.

Without condemning or condoning either party in this dispute.

http://i46.tinypic.com/24fbvyg.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/919htz.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/eqphmx.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/21a0awk.jpg

[Dessolution]

mook wankery. Just like how Black Panther took on the Silver Surfer and made him give up. Or Hulk destroying an asteroid twice the size of earth. Or Spider Man winning against Firelord.

See what I mean? Badly written.

[DWXXV]

Regardless of CQ, we still have the fact that Snake will try and shoot him first.

[cypress_z]

Originally Posted by DWXXV

Regardless of CQ, we still have the fact that Snake will try and shoot him first.

As I pointed out, Batman has armor on. Unless it's a perfect shot to his chin, which is aimed at just the right angle to enter his brain, he will just shrug it off.

[Dessolution]

Originally Posted by DWXXV

Regardless of CQ, we still have the fact that Snake will try and shoot him first.

Do you want me to point out how many times Batman has been shot at by people better then Snake when it comes to shooting?

I'll show you some feats.

Gets Shot 1:
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7097/asdfer8.jpg

Another scene.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7245/asdfon3.jpg

Crazy scene:
Dodges Superman's speedy punches.
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/1234/asdffl2.jpg

Dodges a sniper shot.
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5...05page218f.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9...05page229q.jpg

Incredible reflexes, eye coordination...basically everything.
http://img64.imageshack.us/i/sreflexesep6.jpg/

[hyzmarca]

Originally Posted by cypress_z

As I pointed out, Batman has armor on. Unless it's a perfect shot to his chin, which is aimed at just the right angle to enter his brain, he will just shrug it off.

I'ts been pointed out, Batman's armor only matters if Snake is using his pistol. Since this is a boss fight, he'll probably go with something bigger. Batman wears soft armor. A shot from an assault rifle will tear through it without difficulty.

[cypress_z]

Originally Posted by hyzmarca

I'ts been pointed out, Batman's armor only matters if Snake is using his pistol. Since this is a boss fight, he'll probably go with something bigger. Batman wears soft armor. A shot from an assault rifle will tear through it without difficulty.

We've seen Batman shot with rifles before. His body armor is not equivalent to modern body armor, and is notably superior. Also, he is apparently unaffected by shrapnel from nearby rocket impacts.

Snake might possibly be able to penetrate the armor with a powerful sniper rifle, or with a direct hit from a rocket, but neither is likely due to the stealth capabilities of both combatants. They're likely to face each other close enough upon mutual discovery that it comes down to hand to hand combat.

[Daniel2112]

It always amuses me how many people try to discount the feats of comic book characters as 'wankery'. Comic book characters do stupidly inhuman things. Deal with it. If you can't handle that simple fact, you have no business in a thread dealing with comic book characters.

[Aratech]

Originally Posted by Daniel2112

It always amuses me how many people try to discount the feats of comic book characters as 'wankery'. Comic book characters do stupidly inhuman things. Deal with it. If you can't handle that simple fact, you have no business in a thread dealing with comic book characters.

Oh, I don't deny they do these things. I claim they're wanky, and Bat's sure as hell is, as he's only supposed to be 'peak human' (though well more than half of the shit he pulls is sure as hell not possible for a human to do). This does *not*, however, change the fact that he can, somehow, do them, and that as a result Snake is horribly, horribly outclassed. We're talking into 'anal violation' type territory here.

[Dessolution]

What I'm most disturbed about is the amount of wanking ol' boy Snake has from his fans. I never played the game myself but exactly what constituents for having such incredible Snake wank?

[Aratech]

Originally Posted by Dessolution

What I'm most disturbed about is the amount of wanking ol' boy Snake has from his fans. I never played the game myself but exactly what constituents for having such incredible Snake wank?

I've only played the first MGS game, and not the Twin Snakes remix of it, either. The old school PSX version, so I can't tell you. Mostly, I think it stems from his ability to (like Bats) routinely find himself up agains super-human and quasi-magical individuals vastly superior to himself in raw ability, and stomp the shit out of them. Examples being Psycho Mantis and Vulcan Raven. The former is a super-powered psychokinetic capable of dodging bullets, controlling minds, and hurling people around various other forms of telekinesis and pyrokinesis, the later a mysticism empowered giant who runs around with a 20mm vulcan cannon typically mounted on a F-16 falcon like its a freaking SMG and was tough enough that (IIRC) he survived being inside of an exploding tank.

Mind you, this is nothing Bats hasn't done better. The only guy I can think of that might be a challenge for ole Bruce is Frank Jaggers, AKA Grey Fox.

[MJ12 Commando]

Originally Posted by Daniel2112

It always amuses me how many people try to discount the feats of comic book characters as 'wankery'. Comic book characters do stupidly inhuman things. Deal with it. If you can't handle that simple fact, you have no business in a thread dealing with comic book characters.

All right, fine. Solid Snake beats a man who can shoot down lightning with a revolver in a gunfight, implying that he has faster-than-light reaction times and the ability to psionically accelerate or guide his rounds, as Ocelot could very well have shot the bullets down otherwise.

Similarly, he beats a man with the physical strength, toughness, and reactions necessary to deflect bullets with a machete, who was grafted into an extremely tough cybernetic exoskeleton which resists 20mm fire (Twin Snakes anyhow) and lifts 500 tons one-handed. The guy could feel him hurting him despite this exoskeleton.

Also he can move just almost fast as a goddamn bullet and has third person view, which means that Batman is not going to get the drop on him because he can see around him at all times, in fact he almost never limits his viewpoint to first person (canonical, in a MGS2 codec call). Snake is also canonically psionically capable as even extremely heavily genetically enhanced soldiers with special forces training (Genome soldiers) act as total idiots around him, meaning that he is clearly capable of reducing people's perception and intellect to low levels, which is probably why he can resist Mantis's psionics.

If you want to allow Batman's stupidly inhuman feats, we should allow Snake's as well. These feats are remarkably consistent in just how over-the-top Snake is.

[Aratech]

Originally Posted by MJ12 Commando

All right, fine. Solid Snake beats a man who can shoot down lightning with a revolver in a gunfight, implying that he has faster-than-light reaction times and the ability to psionically accelerate or guide his rounds, as Ocelot could very well have shot the bullets down otherwise.

Similarly, he beats a man with the physical strength, toughness, and reactions necessary to deflect bullets with a machete, who was grafted into an extremely tough cybernetic exoskeleton which resists 20mm fire (Twin Snakes anyhow) and lifts 500 tons one-handed.

Also he can move just almost fast as a goddamn bullet and has third person view, which means that Batman is not going to get the drop on him because he can see around him at all times, in fact he almost never limits his viewpoint to first person (canonical, in a MGS2 codec call).

If you want to allow Batman's stupidly inhuman feats, we should allow Snake's as well.

IIRC, wasn't it stated that Rex's twin autocannons were bushmasters, or 30mm, as opposed to 20?

[Daniel2112]

I don't care if SS's high end feats are used. I don't care who wins this duel. The only thing that bothers me are posts like Walken_MD's that calls SS a 'legendary hardcore badass commando' while deriding Bats as a wanky douchebag in a silly costume.

[sainen]

Originally Posted by Daniel2112

Bats as a wanky douchebag in a silly costume.

you have to admit that is a fairly accurate description of batman or any comic hero/villain type.

[Daniel2112]

Silly costume I grant. Wanky too, although video game characters are often as bad or worse. But he risks his life to help other people. That's not exactly a douchebag trait.

[Aratech]

Originally Posted by Daniel2112

Silly costume I grant. Wanky too, although video game characters are often as bad or worse. But he risks his life to help other people. That's not exactly a douchebag trait.

Depends on whose writing him at the time. For example, JLU Superman (animated) is quite the holier than thou douchebag.

[Dessolution]

If that looks silly, then you guys need to rethink.

[Daniel2112]

Originally Posted by Aratech

Depends on whose writing him at the time. For example, JLU Superman (animated) is quite the holier than thou douchebag.

Superman has always had a holier than thou streak. Bats, not so much. Most people come down on Batman for not being more like Rorschach and Punisher and going off into murderous psychopathic bastard territory, as though that'd somehow make him a better hero.

Oh and Dessolution, that looks awesome, and Batman's costume can BE awesome. It can also be what Adam West wore.

[sainen]

If that doesn't looks silly, then you guys need to rethink

[Aratech]

Originally Posted by Daniel2112

Superman has always had a holier than thou streak. Bats, not so much. Most people come down on Batman for not being more like Rorschach and Punisher and going off into murderous psychopathic bastard territory, as though that'd somehow make him a better hero.

Oh and Dessolution, that looks awesome, and Batman's costume can BE awesome. It can also be what Adam West wore.

Does the above image scream "Sith Lord" to anyone else?

Granted, there are so many things that would explain.

[Dessolution]

If you carefully look at the face below the mask, you would notice the slight resemblance to palpy. Just a sliiight resemblance.

[DWXXV]

I agree with an earlier post.
Batman and Snake are both supposed to be normal/peak humans with alot of skills. Sometimes they do things way in excess of that. If your going to take batman at his most wanky, then you have to give it to snake too, and hes got some good feats.

[Esoterica]

Originally Posted by Dessolution

If that looks silly, then you guys need to rethink.

That does look silly. His thighs are almost as thick as his chest. And look at that tiny head.

I think we can safely chalk up most of Batman's motivation to roid rage.

Originally Posted by Dessolution

What I'm most disturbed about is the amount of wanking ol' boy Snake has from his fans. I never played the game myself but exactly what constituents for having such incredible Snake wank?

Well, it's kind of the opposite of Batman wank. Snake is not superhuman, or even close to superhuman. He's just incredibly good.

Batman has access to any equipment he can imagine (and pay for), he plans things out in meticulous detail, and is pretty much in denial about being completely insane.

Snake goes into battle with nothing but a pack of smokes and the clothes on his back. Occassionally he'll have some kind of pistol or off-the-shelf firearm, but that's rare. He also is almost invariably working with bad information and the plan goes to shit within the first act and he gets triple crossed by everyone, but still somehow comes out on top. It's telling when many times his adversaries plans hinge on the fact that Snake succeeds against all odds and manages to pull off badass feats that they cannot themselves. And of course, the fact that a big plot arc of the series is the fact that the man is a complete psychopath and is atoning for his past sins. And that he takes on enemies that are as technologically or supernaturally advanced as anything Batman takes on.

Also note: The only way Batman has a chance against Superman is because IIRC Superman gave him a kryptonite ring. He can only beat Superman because Superman is helping him do it.

Of course, the main thing here is that Batman won't kill Snake at first. Snake has no problem killing people if they're in his way.