Halo Reach, scan and new screens

[Herald]

Originally Posted by A Puzzled Mind

As far as I'm concerned, Skirmishers defintely fit the new scary Covenant design. There's a lot of disparity between skill/level of Elites and grunts/jackals. I believe Skirmishers are meant to be in between, thereby making the difficulty harder.

Oh don't get me wrong, design wise they look quite scary and since Jackals are somewhat cowardly, it provides a more aggressive enemy for the players to fight. Its just I always want to see some new races/vehicles/tech for the Covenant and the Skirmishers didn't really provide that but ah well. Can't wait to see more though on that front and how they act as well as if they (Skirmishers) get any backstory.

I also hope we see some more Covenant races. Halopedia mentions things like Sharquoi and Drinol as possible member species not seen so...

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by Herald

Oh don't get me wrong, design wise they look quite scary and since Jackals are somewhat cowardly, it provides a more aggressive enemy for the players to fight. Its just I always want to see some new races/vehicles/tech for the Covenant and the Skirmishers didn't really provide that but ah well. Can't wait to see more though on that front and how they act as well as if they (Skirmishers) get any backstory.

I also hope we see some more Covenant races. Halopedia mentions things like Sharquoi and Drinol as possible member species not seen so...

Who knows. Maybe something else will be announced later.


EDIT: I just came across two image from the issue via torrent in



Definitely looks like the AR has some kind of scope above the barrel. This as sign that we can zoom in with the AR ala the silenced SMG in ODST?

[aieeegrunt]

Well better three games late than never. Having an SMG with a scope but not the AR was fairly comical in ODST.

[Dracowar]

Especially when I felt most of the weapons were underpowered.

[aieeegrunt]

Plasma pistol + magnum is pretty much the weapons combo for Halo; release overcharge to strip shields/armor, switch to pistol, headshot. You can eliminate almost all enemies except the hunter in two shots this way. I think the Gold Brutes took two though.

[Dracowar]

I was more the Sniper/pistol combo. Bad thing about it is that during the flashback there was not enough ammo. I swear some of the weapons dropped by the Covenant disappeared after awhile.

[Reaper_93]

Looks like this might actually be a pretty solid game, visually. I mean, I don't have an xbox, but it doesn't look half bad even as a noted Sony fanboy

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by Reaper_93

Looks like this might actually be a pretty solid game, visually. I mean, I don't have an xbox, but it doesn't look half bad even as a noted Sony fanboy

Looking at the 2nd trailer, you can really tell it helped when they went to motion capture for cut scenes.

[aieeegrunt]

Originally Posted by Dracowar

I was more the Sniper/pistol combo. Bad thing about it is that during the flashback there was not enough ammo. I swear some of the weapons dropped by the Covenant disappeared after awhile.

Ya you are kind of forced to do that gay finding the audio tapes thing to unlock the Superintendant's ammo stashes.

[Reaper_93]

Originally Posted by SGTschlock

Looking at the 2nd trailer, you can really tell it helped when they went to motion capture for cut scenes.

A combination of motion capture and traditional animation is generally my preferred route for the look in games - sometimes you are performing actions that would be dangerous or difficult for mocap actors to replicate, after all.

[aieeegrunt]

Blended right it gives you the best look for sure. Pure ragdoll and physics often looks really stupid.

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by Reaper_93

A combination of motion capture and traditional animation is generally my preferred route for the look in games - sometimes you are performing actions that would be dangerous or difficult for mocap actors to replicate, after all.

Well obviously you're not going to mocap everything.

[Reaper_93]

Originally Posted by aieeegrunt

Blended right it gives you the best look for sure. Pure ragdoll and physics often looks really stupid.

I'm fairly certain Valve experimented with combining motion captured and engine-based death animations for zombies in Left 4 Dead 2 - it came out smashingly as I recall.

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by Reaper_93

I'm fairly certain Valve experimented with combining motion captured and engine-based death animations for zombies in Left 4 Dead 2 - it came out smashingly as I recall.

Agreed. That looked fantastic.

[l33telboi]

Looking at those height/weight figures it seems the mass problem doesn't only relate to starships in Halo, but people too. Either that or the Spartan-IIIs are quite thin.

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by l33telboi

Looking at those height/weight figures it seems the mass problem doesn't only relate to starships in Halo, but people too. Either that or the Spartan-IIIs are quite thin.

What definition of "quite thin" are you using? All the Spartan III's have BMI's between 23 and 26. Even predominantly dealing with compact muscle instead of fat, that doesn't come off as being "quite thin".

[l33telboi]

Originally Posted by SGTschlock

What definition of "quite thin" are you using? All the Spartan III's have BMI's between 23 and 26. Even predominantly dealing with compact muscle instead of fat, that doesn't come off as being "quite thin".

The Body Mass Index doesn't really work with those lengths. It doesn't work from well muscled people at all, in fact. Even people that are a tad buffed start going on the overweight side of the scale for the simple fact that muscle weighs more then fat (no, it's not an urban legend). And Body-builders are sickly obese according to the BMI even when their fat percent is infinitesimal. So if they were built like bodybuilders, which I've always assumed they were, then they should all weigh around 170 - 200 kg. But one guy doesn't even break 100 kg. I don't even want to speculate on what a realistic weight for someone 2.2 meters tall would be. Not if they're supposed to be strong.

To give you an idea: Jay Cutler, a renowned bodybuilder, reaches 135 kg in the off-season (i.e. when he doesn't look like steroid freak but actually has some fat here and there), and he's 175 cm. Ronnie Coleman, another renowned body-builder goes up to 150 kg during the off-season and he's 180 cm. Ronnie Coleman is way over Obese Class III according to the BMI, quite literally off the charts.

Found someone in the 2 meter range, a guy called Brian Shaw, he weighs a little less then 170kg, and he's a strongman competitor:

[Isil`Zha]

Originally Posted by l33telboi

Looking at those height/weight figures it seems the mass problem doesn't only relate to starships in Halo, but people too. Either that or the Spartan-IIIs are quite thin.

umm, Spartans weigh half a ton (with armor.)

[l33telboi]

I'm talking about without armor, which I assume those figures are for.

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by l33telboi

The Body Mass Index doesn't really work with those lengths. It doesn't work from well muscled people at all, in fact. Even people that are a tad buffed start going on the overweight side of the scale for the simple fact that muscle weighs more then fat (no, it's not an urban legend).

Yeah. Most athletes tend to tip around the overweight line of the BMI scale due to their muscle mass.

With that in mind, I don't think you'd classify the Spartan III's as being thin unless you were doing your measuring with body builders as the basis.

Originally Posted by l33telboi

TAnd Body-builders are sickly obese according to the BMI even when their fat percent is infinitesimal. So if they were built like bodybuilders, which I've always assumed they were, then they should all weigh around 170 - 200 kg. But one guy doesn't even break 100 kg.

To give you an idea: Jay Cutler, a renowned bodybuilder, reaches 135 kg in the off-season (i.e. when he doesn't look like steroid freak but actually has some fat here and there), and he's 175 cm. Ronnie Coleman, another renowned body-builder goes up to 150 kg during the off-season and he's 180 cm. Ronnie Coleman is way over Obese Class III according to the BMI, quite literally off the charts.

Found someone in the 2 meter range, a guy called Brian Shaw, he weighs a little less then 170kg, and he's a strongman competitor:

I think the problem here is the assumption that Spartans have builds comparable to pumped up body builders. It's important to consider that most Special forces types and athletes who need general phsyical ability in many different area's, ussually aren't built in the way that body builders are.


And frankly, Spartans just don't look all that much like ultra muscular body builders. Please account for the fact that Chief's build is probably bulked up a bit by his armor. With that in mind, Chief doesn't particularly come off as someone pumped enough for Mr. Olympia.



Sure, if the average Spartan WAS built like a professional body builder, then sure they probably weigh in that weight range. It just might not be an accurate assessment to assume they're built like that.

Originally Posted by l33telboi

I don't even want to speculate on what a realistic weight for someone 2.2 meters tall would be. Not if they're supposed to be strong.

Korean heavy weight MMA fighter Choi hong man
Weight:330 pounds
Height:7'2

Jorge
Weight:320 pounds
Height:7'4

This doesn't seem to spectacularly off.

[Mjolnar]

He has a point, I myself am 194cm tall, and I weigh somewhere in the region of 105kg, and Im not even particularly heavily built, unlike these guys who IIRC have denser muscles and bones than a normal human.

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by Mjolnar

He has a point, I myself am 194cm tall, and I weigh somewhere in the region of 105kg, and Im not even particularly heavily built, unlike these guys who IIRC have denser muscles and bones than a normal human.

Fair point about the muscle density. The Spartans did come off as being a little to light with that in mind.

Though I'm not sure if the carbide ossification on the SIII's bones would actually make the bone all that heavier.

[l33telboi]

Originally Posted by SGTschlock

Yeah. Most athletes tend to tip around the overweight line of the BMI scale due to their muscle mass.

With that in mind, I don't think you'd classify the Spartan III's as being thin unless you were doing your measuring with body builders as the basis.

Professional athletes should all be well above the fat line when it comes to the BMI index, if we're talking about a sport that involves building even the least bit of upper body muscle. People who train their muslces a lot, strongmen competitors, body builders, boxers, wrestlers, etc. They're all going to be grossly obese according to the BMI.

It's really a tanget for a different thread, but the BMI is pure shit for the simple reason that it doesn't differentiate between muscle and fat. Imagine the medical problems you're going to bump into when you compare two actually obese people. One has muslce under the fat, the other one doesn't. The one with muscle obviously isn't as bad off as the one without, but the BMI is going to tell herr doktor that he's in greater need of treatment.

In any case, compare this with Spartans - they've trained their entire lives, were chosen from children with pre-established potential, so they should physically speaking be built like greek gods. But add to this their re-inforced bones and massively increased muscle density, and I wouldn't bat an eye if that article said Jorge was 300 kg in weight.

I think the problem here is the assumption that Spartans have builds comparable to pumped up body builders. It's important to consider that most Special forces types and athletes who need general phsyical ability in many different area's, ussually aren't built in the way that body builders are.

Oh I know. I was taking something of an extreme to demonstrate the point. Cardio tends to make you leaner. But even so, take a look at Shaw, he doesn't really look all that special, he even looks a bit chubby... but he weighs almost 170kg. You don't need to look like a muscle-freak to reach these weights, and bodybuilders mostly look the way they do because they have almost no body fat at all.

Choi Hong Man, aside from his height, doesn't really seem all that beefy:



Yet he's both shorter and has a higher weight then Jorge.

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by l33telboi

Professional athletes should all be well above the fat line when it comes to the BMI index, if we're talking about a sport that involves building even the least bit of upper body muscle. People who train their muslces a lot, strongmen competitors, body builders, boxers, wrestlers, etc. They're all going to be grossly obese according to the BMI.

I'm mainly using it not for health appeasement, but as a rough means to determine the difference in muscle bulk between two presumably low fat individuals.

But yeah. For health purposes it's iffy.

Originally Posted by l33telboi

Professional athletes should all be well above the fat line when it comes to the BMI index, if we're talking about a sport that involves building even the least bit of upper body muscle. People who train their muslces a lot, strongmen competitors, body builders, boxers, wrestlers, etc. They're all going to be grossly obese according to the BMI.

I'd think it'd be better to focus less on body builders/strong men and more on professional fighters. Guys who just have to lift static objects tend to be more specialized in what they train their bodies to do. The body type of a relatively lean heavy weight fighter seems more likely the type of build you'd want for your average super soldier to train for, since it has a good overall combination of strength and speed.

I do understand what you're talking about Spartans being a bit light weight, considering the amount of physical training/augmentation they've gotten. I think this is a better comparison than bringing up heavy built body builders though.


Antonio is over a half foot shorter than Emile...but only weighs a kilogram and a half less. As has been mentioned earlier, this seems odd for someone who's had his muscle density increased through surgery and has undergone intense physical conditioning all his life.

Originally Posted by l33telboi

But add to this their re-inforced bones and massively increased muscle density, and I wouldn't bat an eye if that article said Jorge was 300 kg in weight.

In general yeah... but I wouldn't quite go so far with Jorge . I'd think the following would at least make some sense.

Carter:141 kilograms
Jorge:181 kilograms
Kat:118 kilograms
Emile:132 kilograms
Jun:138 kilograms

[aieeegrunt]

I don't even attempt to make sense of Halo fluff numbers anymore, it's just a fast ticket to a headache.