GDI Military Structure Discussion

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Originally Posted by Kerrus

I'm basing the SLDF ones on halo spartans. 'splains much.

As long as the Earth ones end up being way better than the Halo spartans, that's fine. 'Cuz the problem with the Halo Spartans was that each Spartan cost a shitload of resources to make, but that they weren't worth nearly their cost in ODSTs.

'Course, for the cost of one S2 you could build a UNSC destroyer.

[EdBecerra]

Originally Posted by evilauthor

The danger here is that the fic starts to revolve around these augmented Knights like Star Wars started revolving around Jedi instead of regular people. Hell, we've already had people here complaining about fic revolving around mechwarriors despite GDI supposedly not being mech-centric.

Hmm... we'll have to watch that.

We'll spend our days talking about our knghts...



Ed.

[egaroadkill]

About the fic flavor and super soldiers.

Supersoldiers are fine by me, eventually, as long as they don’t overshadow the Clancyesq feel. Heck, they don’t even have to be nerfed arbitrarily. One Just shines the fiction light on other subjects and don’t let them steal the show. The clans have their super soldiers, why can’t anyone else who has the technology? It just seems weird not to have it when it’s possible. Still, I see super soldiers being a long way off unless someone has that build a super being thing from Fifth Element.

While on the super soldier’s subject, why bother. What with power armor technology, FASAverse batteries of magic power densities, advanced microelectronics and quantum entangled communications gear already being played with in the labs, why won’t we have billions of mass produced, teleoperated battle frames of all sorts of shapes and sizes for fun and games a continent away, all from the comfort of your couch?
Sorry to bring that up but these crossovers get me wondering out loud sometimes.

Also, while on the genetics subject, you know that even the rudimentary genetic repair technology spinoffs from the knight program will do wonders for Earths long term survival prospects? Earth already has as a percentage of population far more numerous and more productive people than any single Successor state. Repairing simple faulty genetics, improving quality of life, increasing life spans and reducing down time due to sickness will only expand that advantage. Throw in later minor, common, improvements for future generations and that gap widens more. Allow for even better improvements like heightened intelligence and its over for the Spheroids in a few generations if they don’t slag the planet with nukes.

[king of hybrids]

About the republic of the sphere. Didn't it fail miserably to the point that Dieron didn't put up much of a fict to rejoining the DC?

Or was that just wizkids stomping on any renaissence ending the neofuedalism stuff

As for the TH are there Any minor Terran noble families that survived the sucession wars that could lead a proTH rebellion?
Because a lot of worlds will still follow their planet lords into rebellion as well as those we get to overthrow said nobles.

Or we could get our hands on DNA from all great houses the three periphery houses and chuck em in a modified iron womb and presto instant first lord candidate

[Tetsurou]

Can I bring up a thought I had about the GDI Marine Corps?

If we are going to use it as stated within the story post, basing it off of the USMC and the RMC, I figure that the GDIMC would have their own version of the Marine Assualt Ship. In this case, I propse, a Jump Capable, maybe LF equiped, Pocket Warship (Navy opperated) that has a troop capacity of upto one BCT (likely less, but haglible<sp?>) that can be inserted through a variaty of means (droppods if you gutsy, sub-dropships...which I think I mention only in jest but has taken on a life of its own, LAMs, or if we think it can be managed, landing).

Thoughts, or should this go to the Dropship/Jumpship thread?

[Tyrchon]

Originally Posted by Tetsurou

Can I bring up a thought I had about the GDI Marine Corps?

If we are going to use it as stated within the story post, basing it off of the USMC and the RMC, I figure that the GDIMC would have their own version of the Marine Assualt Ship. In this case, I propse, a Jump Capable, maybe LF equiped, Pocket Warship (Navy opperated) that has a troop capacity of upto one BCT (likely less, but haglible<sp?>) that can be inserted through a variaty of means (droppods if you gutsy, sub-dropships...which I think I mention only in jest but has taken on a life of its own, LAMs, or if we think it can be managed, landing).

Thoughts, or should this go to the Dropship/Jumpship thread?

Yeah, take it to the Jumpship/Dropship Thread for detailing it.

[Tetsurou]

Originally Posted by Tyrchon

Yeah, take it to the Jumpship/Dropship Thread for detailing it.

'Kay.

[consequences]

Okay, with the arrival of Muslim refugees(however many there turn out being in the short term), and the expansion the Foreign Legion is already going through, Dansel being in command is no longer feasible at his current temporary rank, and promoting him would be generally unsupportable. Suggested solution:

Aladdin Al Hazim gets promoted to full colonel and put in command. Hale gets bumped to Lt. Colonel and stays the unit XO. Dansel stays in command of first battalion, Brand is put in command of the training battalion (whatever size it ends up getting cut down to at the end by dropouts/failures/identified spies). The merc group that an author whose name I can't remember this minute is attached as a separate formation, as are any of the refugees from the pilgrimage fleet that want to join when they arrive.

Does this sound vaguely workable/plausible to people?

[evilauthor]

Originally Posted by consequences

Okay, with the arrival of Muslim refugees(however many there turn out being in the short term), and the expansion the Foreign Legion is already going through, Dansel being in command is no longer feasible at his current temporary rank, and promoting him would be generally unsupportable. Suggested solution:

Aladdin Al Hazim gets promoted to full colonel and put in command. Hale gets bumped to Lt. Colonel and stays the unit XO. Dansel stays in command of first battalion, Brand is put in command of the training battalion (whatever size it ends up getting cut down to at the end by dropouts/failures/identified spies). The merc group that an author whose name I can't remember this minute is attached as a separate formation, as are any of the refugees from the pilgrimage fleet that want to join when they arrive.

Does this sound vaguely workable/plausible to people?

Right... what the hell are they commanding? Do the IS Mujadeen become a branch of the Legion that Aladdin is taking charge of? What is Hale in charge of if he's a LTC (which is a battalion command rank or staff position to someone higher up the chain of command)?

[consequences]

Originally Posted by evilauthor

Right... what the hell are they commanding? Do the IS Mujadeen become a branch of the Legion that Aladdin is taking charge of?

Something like that yeah, with Aladdin being in command until they get someone appropriately up to speed(not to mention trustworthy). The Legion will integrate more as time goes by, but since perfect is the enemy of good enough, they'd leave that for a later date.

What is Hale in charge of if he's a LTC (which is a battalion command rank or staff position to someone higher up the chain of command)?

XO, and advanced unit training. And since they're going by the IS model this minute majors are running battalions.

[Prince Charon]

From the reference thread:

Originally Posted by Tyrchon

The rank insignia for GDI personnel follows the standard designs of real life modern militaries.

Define 'standard', in this context. There are a variety of designs used as rank insignia throughout the world. Even the 'Naval officers use rings around their sleeve-cuffs' thing is not universal, though it is somewhat common.

[Tyrchon]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

From the reference thread:


Define 'standard', in this context. There are a variety of designs used as rank insignia throughout the world. Even the 'Naval officers use rings around their sleeve-cuffs' thing is not universal, though it is somewhat common.

Crap, forgot about that bit. Even NATO doesn't use a standard set of insignia. Well I already described the use of Chevrons for Non-Coms and Enlisted personnel and mentioned the double brass bars of a Captain....

Let's just go for the simple insignia of the U.S. Armed Forces for the moment. It isn't too ostentatious and covers pretty much every rank equivalent in the GDI forces. It is also lacking in the showing of royal symbols like crowns and such.

Chevrons, Bars, Oak Leaves, Birds, and Stars.

[EdBecerra]

Originally Posted by Tyrchon

Crap, forgot about that bit. Even NATO doesn't use a standard set of insignia. Well I already described the use of Chevrons for Non-Coms and Enlisted personnel and mentioned the double brass bars of a Captain....

Let's just go for the simple insignia of the U.S. Armed Forces for the moment. It isn't too ostentatious and covers pretty much every rank equivalent in the GDI forces. It is also lacking in the showing of royal symbols like crowns and such.

Chevrons, Bars, Oak Leaves, Birds, and Stars.

I know this suggestion will cause screams to arise from every corner of the forum, but I'm making it NOT because I'm a fanboy, but because the design was originally created to be a "clean sheet" design of insignia for a modern organization.

The gold pips and rings of STNG.

One gold pip for a step in rank, a gold pip with a black center for a half step. A second lieutenant would be a single black and gold pip, a lieutetant would be a gold pip, and so on.

Or it can be done with bars. Silver for a half step, gold for a full step in rank.

Chevrons for the enlisted.

Either way, simple and efficient. Which is the image the GDI seems to be projecting. Efficiency, reuse, and recycle. The KISS principle.

Ed.

[Typhonis 1]

Originally Posted by EdBecerra

I know this suggestion will cause screams to arise from every corner of the forum, but I'm making it NOT because I'm a fanboy, but because the design was originally created to be a "clean sheet" design of insignia for a modern organization.

The gold pips and rings of STNG.

One gold pip for a step in rank, a gold pip with a black center for a half step. A second lieutenant would be a single black and gold pip, a lieutetant would be a gold pip, and so on.

Or it can be done with bars. Silver for a half step, gold for a full step in rank.

Chevrons for the enlisted.

Either way, simple and efficient. Which is the image the GDI seems to be projecting. Efficiency, reuse, and recycle. The KISS principle.

Ed.

With brown and blue substituting for go0ld and silver in the cammo uniform?

[EdBecerra]

Originally Posted by Typhonis 1

With brown and blue substituting for go0ld and silver in the cammo uniform?

Possibly. Or dark bronze for the gold, and pewter for the silver. Both dark colors that do well with the muted tones of cammo uniforms.

Here's a direct link to the sub-entry on wikipedia with the images.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfle...2C_and_Voyager

Simple, elegant, and you don't need to memorize what image goes with what rank. It is, for the most part, self-explanatory.

Ed.

[Tyrchon]

Originally Posted by EdBecerra

Possibly. Or dark bronze for the gold, and pewter for the silver. Both dark colors that do well with the muted tones of cammo uniforms.

Here's a direct link to the sub-entry on wikipedia with the images.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfle...2C_and_Voyager

Simple, elegant, and you don't need to memorize what image goes with what rank. It is, for the most part, self-explanatory.

Ed.

The only problem with using such insignia is that they are pretty far removed from actual military rank insignia. There is little there to hook on to and make them easy to learn and equate with existing insignia.

You can learn them as a new system, but it would most likely be simpler to just use a system that is already in place somewhere and that the majority of soldiers have been exposed to. The use of the simple U.S. rank insignia, at least for Army and Marines, is easily compatible and interchangeable with those of other modern militaries.

U.S. Army Rank Insignia


U.S. Marine Rank Insignia

[Typhonis 1]

Bars for enlisted. circles for officers. Triangles for flag rank?

[Tyrchon]

Maybe these instead seeing as how we already 'borrowed' the Dress Uniform.





Simple, clean, and in line with the multitude of already established ranks and insignia used by most modern militaries.

[EdBecerra]

Originally Posted by Tyrchon

The only problem with using such insignia is that they are pretty far removed from actual military rank insignia. There is little there to hook on to and make them easy to learn and equate with existing insignia.

You can learn them as a new system, but it would most likely be simpler to just use a system that is already in place somewhere and that the majority of soldiers have been exposed to. The use of the simple U.S. rank insignia, at least for Army and Marines, is easily compatible and interchangeable with those of other modern militaries.

[/snark mode set to $_on]

Why, yes, I suppose there are a few people in the world who are unfamiliar with the pip system of rank as introduced by STNG.

I seem to recall that there are a few living in the jungles of the Congo and of the Amazon...

[/snark mode set to $_off]



Chevrons for the enlisted, though, yes. I quite agree. They're almost universal these days. The British military had quite the influence over the world for more than a few centuries that way.

Ed.

[Knobby]

Tychron, minor problem: While the insignia and other uniform doodads aren't standardized, for NATO (the source of the bulk of the GDI forces) the rank code structure is standardized.

[Tyrchon]

Originally Posted by Knobby

Tychron, minor problem: While the insignia and other uniform doodads aren't standardized, for NATO (the source of the bulk of the GDI forces) the rank code structure is standardized.

Most modern militaries all use similar if not the same rank structure. There are a few areas, mainly with senior level Non-Coms and Warrant Officers, that gets a bit fuzzy but for the most part things are pretty standard in terms of rank structure.

Everyone has:

Privates
Corporals
Sergeants (of varying levels and numbers ie Staff, Gunnery, Master, Major etc.)
Lieutenants (2nd and 1st)
Captains
Majors
Lt. Colonels
Colonels
Generals (of varying levels and degrees ie Brigadier, Lieutenant, Major etc.)

The confusion and grey areas come in when you get to parsing out some of the levels of the ranks. Also, you get some confusion and grey area when ranks like Lt. Commander and Commander are thrown in and not in reference to a naval arm where such ranks are traditionally found due to the structure being switched up as Captains take the place of Colonels and Admirals take the place of Generals.

My suggestion was to use the insignia, not necessarily the actual rank designations as they aren't completely compatible and leave out a number of ranks. This was mainly because the insignia are all based upon already recognizable insignia. There are plenty of rank insignia there, along with their varying degrees, to cover all of the necessary ranks included in the GDI structure.

[Barricade]

I like the UNSC insignia, but they go way WAY beyond what's needed (as its due to kills/Xbox Points, and thus the need for more steps) in most of the ranks & grades.

Enlisted really only needs to be 7 grades, as you could conceivably roll a Staff Sergeant's slot into a SFC, and 8 at the most. And grade 8 would be divided up into the separate administration titles, but still be the same grade.

Officer ranks need to be trimmed back so badly its downright sad. No way in hell does there need to be an O28 position.

2nd Lieutenant (Ensign)
1st Lieutenant (Lieutenant JG)
Captain (Lieutenant)
Major (Lt. Commander)
Lt. Colonel (Commander)
Colonel (Captain)
Brig. Gen (Commodore)
Mjr. Gen (Rear Adm)
Lt. Gen (Vice Adm)
General (Adm)

I don't believe/go for the USN idea of a Rear Admiral 'Lower Half' bull.

I do however agree that a wartime only O11, General of the Army, and Fleet Admiral (both 5 stars), respectively, would be a good idea. Especially as we'd likely also require outside allies, and having one person for each branch at the absolute top, period, would cut down on some minor, yet really important, issues & potential problems with chains of command. Although following through with the idea that the Pentagon floated back in the '90s about the CJSC being the sole 5 star is also a good idea.

[John117xCortana]

Is the Commodore rank necessary ? As far as I'm aware we don't use that rank anymore in the military.

[Knobby]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Is the Commodore rank necessary ? As far as I'm aware we don't use that rank anymore in the military.

That's what the whole upper/lower half Rear Admiral thing is about. Frankly, I've always thought it was stupid, so dropping the upper/lower thing for Commodore/RA is just fine with me.

[Rabe]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Is the Commodore rank necessary ? As far as I'm aware we don't use that rank anymore in the military.

Um isn't there an informal tradition of referring an other ships Captain as such while s/he is aboard another Captain's ship.