Ghost Ships - Warships sunk not in combat

Desert Fox · Nov 20th 2009, 4:21pm

I am looking at the possibility of "ghost" ships for a project idea of mine.

What I am curious on are warships which sunk through storm or other cause where the sinking of the vessel was never actually seen and that the wreck has never been found.

I am looking for relatively "modern" warships as in after the age of steam. One example is the Battleship São Paulo which broke its line while being towed to scrap and was never seen since.

Interested as well if something like this happened to any Pre-Dreadnoughts, Cruisers, Destroyers, or even Frigates. I don't believe that there are any carriers which just "disappeared"

Edit: Wanted to also ask if anybody has read "Posted Missing"
Is it a good book on disappearing vessels?

Alamo · Nov 20th 2009, 5:08pm

Halsey lost almost half a dozen ships to a typhoon in the Pacific.

StarSpawn · Nov 20th 2009, 5:24pm

The German light Cruiser Madgeburg was lost somewere in the North atlantic in 1914.

Captain Orsai · Nov 20th 2009, 5:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarSpawn

The German light Cruiser Madgeburg was lost somewere in the North atlantic in 1914.

Doesn't count, and she ran aground in the Gulf of Finland anyway.

Apocal · Nov 20th 2009, 7:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alamo

Halsey lost almost half a dozen ships to a typhoon in the Pacific.

That was just an accident and it happened only twice!

DrStrangelove · Nov 20th 2009, 7:51pm

UB-65 was supposed to be haunted or cursed

TheSandman · Nov 20th 2009, 8:16pm

Didn't the Aussies lose one in WWII?

Desert Fox · Nov 20th 2009, 11:12pm

The only other one I have learned about is the Japanese cruiser "Unebi"
Three Proteus class Colliers also disappeared without a trace.

thejester · Nov 20th 2009, 11:17pm

AE1 disappeared somewhere off Rabaul in 1914, IIRC.

Alamo · Nov 20th 2009, 11:26pm

Not quite what you may be thinking of, but the British K class subs come to mind. If there was ever an unlucky class of boats, that was one of them. 18 built, 6 sank in accidents, an additional 2 sank but re floated, and even more numerous accidents. I mean, just listen to the list of losses.

* K13 sank on 19 January 1917 during sea trials when an intake failed to close whilst diving and her engine room flooded. She was eventually salvaged and recommissioned as K22 in March 1917.
* K1 collided with K4 off the Danish coast on 18 November 1917 and was scuttled to avoid capture.
* Two boats were lost in an incident known as the Battle of May Island on 31 January 1918. The cruiser HMS Fearless collided with the head of a line of submarines, K17, which sank in about 8 minutes, whilst other submarines behind her all turned to avoid her. K4 was struck by K6 which almost cut her in half, and was then struck by K7 before she finally sank with all her crew. At the same time K22 (the recommissioned K13) and K14 collided although both survived. In just 75 minutes, two submarines had been sunk, three badly damaged and 105 crew killed.
* K5 was lost due to unknown reasons during a mock battle in the Bay of Biscay on 20 January 1921. Nothing further was heard of her following a signal that she was diving, but wreckage was recovered later that day. It was concluded that she exceeded her safe maximum depth.
* K15 sank at her mooring in Portsmouth on 25 June 1921. This was caused by hydraulic oil expanding in the hot weather and contracting overnight as the temperature dropped and the consequent loss of pressure causing diving vents to open. The boat flooded through open hatches as it submerged.

It ties with the Proteus class colliers for the place of most unlucky ship class ever built.

Desert Fox · Nov 20th 2009, 11:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejester

AE1 disappeared somewhere off Rabaul in 1914, IIRC.

Umm....What, AE-1 USS Pyro - scrapped in 1950?

The Wild Turkey · Nov 20th 2009, 11:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSandman

Didn't the Aussies lose one in WWII?

I think you're referring to HMAS Sydney. That was lost in battle with a Germain raider and the wreck was found earlier this year.

thejester · Nov 21st 2009, 12:37am

Quote:

Umm....What, AE-1 USS Pyro - scrapped in 1950?

Sorry, an Australian submarine. Her sister, AE2, was sunk in the Dardanelles but the wreck was found a few years ago.

Desert Fox · Nov 21st 2009, 1:24am

O.K., that makes a bit more sense.

MarekGutkowski · Nov 21st 2009, 7:14am

Hadn't a US Navy Sub disappeared in the pacific in the 1960's?

Alamo · Nov 21st 2009, 7:30am

2 of them actually. The USS Scorpion, and the USS Thresher.

Apocal · Nov 21st 2009, 10:47am

We were in contact with the USS Thresher when it was lost and know exactly why it went down. The loss of the USS Scorpion remains a mystery however.

**Douglas Nicol** · Nov 21st 2009, 11:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wild Turkey

I think you're referring to HMAS Sydney. That was lost in battle with a Germain raider and the wreck was found earlier this year.

Aye, the German Commerce Raider Kormoran.

At one time the German carrier Graf Zeppelin might have counted but it was found not that long ago.

Nonite · Nov 21st 2009, 12:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alamo

2 of them actually. The USS Scorpion, and the USS Thresher.

Isn't Scorpion considered a "victim" of the so-called Bermuda Triangle?

Desert Fox · Nov 21st 2009, 1:02pm

With the Scorpion, she had a number of mechanical problems, had not gone through the "Subsafe" program as most of her sisters, and may have had a problem with a torpedo....
There is quite a bit of conjecture on what the real cause but there is a lot of strong possibilities

Sabertooth · Nov 21st 2009, 1:12pm

Wasn´t the Scorpion lost in portuguese waters? I seem to remember hearing about a sunken US sub around those parts.

CnB · Nov 21st 2009, 1:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocal

We were in contact with the USS Thresher when it was lost and know exactly why it went down. The loss of the USS Scorpion remains a mystery however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Scorpion_(SSN-589)

They found the wreck.

Ash's Boomstick · Nov 21st 2009, 3:27pm

Theres the masses of warships that were used at the Bikini Atoll tests, carriers, battleships, cruisers right down to frigates and corvettes i think.

The German high seas fleet that sank themselves at Scapa Flow post WW1 might count as they were sunk after the end of hostilities, then theres the warships that were scrapped or used for whatever reasons post both wars around russia or in the balkans/mediterranian.

Warringer · Nov 21st 2009, 5:27pm

AFAIK, there are a number of Russian Subs that have disappeared.

Desert Fox · Nov 21st 2009, 5:30pm

Apparently the Spanish cruiser "Reina Regente" also disappeared without a trace.

Surprised that no destroyers have just disappeared?

I may ghost ship a British V / W class WW1 destroyer using one of the vessels which was canceled.

Nov 20th 2009, 4:21pm	#1
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	Ghost Ships - Warships sunk not in combat I am looking at the possibility of "ghost" ships for a project idea of mine. What I am curious on are warships which sunk through storm or other cause where the sinking of the vessel was never actually seen and that the wreck has never been found. I am looking for relatively "modern" warships as in after the age of steam. One example is the Battleship São Paulo which broke its line while being towed to scrap and was never seen since. Interested as well if something like this happened to any Pre-Dreadnoughts, Cruisers, Destroyers, or even Frigates. I don't believe that there are any carriers which just "disappeared" Edit: Wanted to also ask if anybody has read "Posted Missing" Is it a good book on disappearing vessels? __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist Last edited by Desert Fox; Nov 20th 2009 at 4:30pm.

Nov 20th 2009, 5:08pm	#2
Alamo Registered Join Date: 6 Aug 2009 Location: Northwest Jersey Posts: 696	Halsey lost almost half a dozen ships to a typhoon in the Pacific. __________________ Posted by Nietzsche: Putin is Teddy Roosevelt, after the Russians dug up his body and rebuilt him from T-34 parts and designed him to run off Vodka and Kickass. Posted by BeerandGuns: The guy who wanted recipes for eating cats didn't get slammed like this. Posted by Hannibal: I'm sure by then there will be an AR upper capable of diverting the asteroid.

Nov 20th 2009, 5:24pm	#3
StarSpawn Registered Join Date: 24 Dec 2005 Location: Denmark. Land of low unemployment and depressing winters Posts: 6,981	The German light Cruiser Madgeburg was lost somewere in the North atlantic in 1914. __________________ "The screaming is not pain, it is just reflexes.." "Finally, a man worth killing..." "If you have a gun, you can rob a bank, if you have a bank you can rob everybody" "Furthermore synchronized recipocal projections within an integratet revenue contingency balances incremental flexibility in uncertain timephases"

Nov 20th 2009, 11:12pm	#8
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	The only other one I have learned about is the Japanese cruiser "Unebi" Three Proteus class Colliers also disappeared without a trace. __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 20th 2009, 11:17pm	#9
thejester What y'all lookin' at? Join Date: 8 May 2004 Location: Lookin' for bitches. Posts: 3,932	AE1 disappeared somewhere off Rabaul in 1914, IIRC. __________________ "I fucking hate the environment too! Fucking nuke that shit, it's the only way to be sure!" - Falcorian. "Cometh the moment, cometh the man! The son of the man!" - Ablett, 26:12 Phantom Llama is my hero.

Nov 20th 2009, 8:16pm	#7
TheSandman Registered Join Date: 23 Feb 2009 Posts: 197	Didn't the Aussies lose one in WWII?

Nov 20th 2009, 11:26pm	#10
Alamo Registered Join Date: 6 Aug 2009 Location: Northwest Jersey Posts: 696	Not quite what you may be thinking of, but the British K class subs come to mind. If there was ever an unlucky class of boats, that was one of them. 18 built, 6 sank in accidents, an additional 2 sank but re floated, and even more numerous accidents. I mean, just listen to the list of losses. * K13 sank on 19 January 1917 during sea trials when an intake failed to close whilst diving and her engine room flooded. She was eventually salvaged and recommissioned as K22 in March 1917. * K1 collided with K4 off the Danish coast on 18 November 1917 and was scuttled to avoid capture. * Two boats were lost in an incident known as the Battle of May Island on 31 January 1918. The cruiser HMS Fearless collided with the head of a line of submarines, K17, which sank in about 8 minutes, whilst other submarines behind her all turned to avoid her. K4 was struck by K6 which almost cut her in half, and was then struck by K7 before she finally sank with all her crew. At the same time K22 (the recommissioned K13) and K14 collided although both survived. In just 75 minutes, two submarines had been sunk, three badly damaged and 105 crew killed. * K5 was lost due to unknown reasons during a mock battle in the Bay of Biscay on 20 January 1921. Nothing further was heard of her following a signal that she was diving, but wreckage was recovered later that day. It was concluded that she exceeded her safe maximum depth. * K15 sank at her mooring in Portsmouth on 25 June 1921. This was caused by hydraulic oil expanding in the hot weather and contracting overnight as the temperature dropped and the consequent loss of pressure causing diving vents to open. The boat flooded through open hatches as it submerged. It ties with the Proteus class colliers for the place of most unlucky ship class ever built. __________________ Posted by Nietzsche: Putin is Teddy Roosevelt, after the Russians dug up his body and rebuilt him from T-34 parts and designed him to run off Vodka and Kickass. Posted by BeerandGuns: The guy who wanted recipes for eating cats didn't get slammed like this. Posted by Hannibal: I'm sure by then there will be an AR upper capable of diverting the asteroid.

Nov 21st 2009, 1:24am	#14
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	O.K., that makes a bit more sense. __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 21st 2009, 7:14am	#15
MarekGutkowski Registered Join Date: 25 Jan 2009 Posts: 107	Hadn't a US Navy Sub disappeared in the pacific in the 1960's?

Nov 21st 2009, 7:30am	#16
Alamo Registered Join Date: 6 Aug 2009 Location: Northwest Jersey Posts: 696	2 of them actually. The USS Scorpion, and the USS Thresher. __________________ Posted by Nietzsche: Putin is Teddy Roosevelt, after the Russians dug up his body and rebuilt him from T-34 parts and designed him to run off Vodka and Kickass. Posted by BeerandGuns: The guy who wanted recipes for eating cats didn't get slammed like this. Posted by Hannibal: I'm sure by then there will be an AR upper capable of diverting the asteroid.

Nov 21st 2009, 10:47am	#17
Apocal Inexperienced IL Senator Join Date: 22 Aug 2004 Location: Away Posts: 6,807	We were in contact with the USS Thresher when it was lost and know exactly why it went down. The loss of the USS Scorpion remains a mystery however. __________________ "Saying fuck is not as bad as pulling the trigger and sending hot steel through someone's chest." "Patriots make much of the dismal record of the French in matters military. Well, yes. It's hard to argue with failure. I note however that the French have Germany on their borders, a condition associated with military failure for everybody enjoying the same circumstances." -Fred Reed

Nov 21st 2009, 1:02pm	#20
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	With the Scorpion, she had a number of mechanical problems, had not gone through the "Subsafe" program as most of her sisters, and may have had a problem with a torpedo.... There is quite a bit of conjecture on what the real cause but there is a lot of strong possibilities __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 21st 2009, 1:12pm	#21
Sabertooth Green Lantern Join Date: 8 Oct 2004 Location: Oa - (Portugal) Posts: 8,230	Wasn´t the Scorpion lost in portuguese waters? I seem to remember hearing about a sunken US sub around those parts. __________________ "It's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen....Alright, give me the bomb."- Ultra Magnus "Fuck. The world stage is becoming a goddam comic book." - Sean21

Nov 21st 2009, 5:27pm	#24
Warringer Making a Saving LOL Join Date: 15 Jul 2004 Location: Sauerland, mein Herz schlägt für das Sauerland Posts: 6,429	AFAIK, there are a number of Russian Subs that have disappeared. __________________ Everything is fun and games until someone pisses of China. Anarchy is the most unstable of societies. It will collapse into a government at the slightest prod. - Larry Niven There is no place like 127.0.0.1 Homepage \| Forum \| Google Group \| Maximum Addventure

Nov 21st 2009, 5:30pm	#25
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	Apparently the Spanish cruiser "Reina Regente" also disappeared without a trace. Surprised that no destroyers have just disappeared? I may ghost ship a British V / W class WW1 destroyer using one of the vessels which was canceled. __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist Last edited by Desert Fox; Nov 22nd 2009 at 10:53am.

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