"Phoney" Military Historical Sites

Desert Fox · Nov 20th 2009, 10:45pm

When I up in New Hampshire, I visited a 6 inch coastal battery location from World War II. They had shells that they claimed where for the 6 inch mm guns but they were far larger than that....Probably 16 inch shells. Anybody seen anything like this as far as being phoney?

Torr Samaho · Nov 21st 2009, 4:23am

any site dedicated to the "gavin" ?

Desert Fox · Nov 21st 2009, 4:25am

True...True....but I really mean physical not virtual locations

Roi Danton · Nov 22nd 2009, 8:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torr Samaho

any site dedicated to the "gavin" ?

Why do people keep saying that name? Why?

If is slaughter innocent people tonight to subdue my rage they are on your conscience. On yours not on mine. On YOURS!

*runs off with a big knife and screams*

Atlan · Nov 22nd 2009, 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roi Danton

Why do people keep saying that name? Why?

If is slaughter innocent people tonight to subdue my rage they are on your conscience. On yours not on mine. On YOURS!

*runs off with a big knife and screams*

But... But... Don't you BELIEVE Mike Sparks? I mean, he's such an honest, trustworthy, sane and reliable guy!
Everybody here treats him as some kind of looney loser with furry tendencies who has some kind of fixation with wiping out the Marines and naming a pretty much obsolete piece of kit after...

Oh.

Right.

Prince Charon · Nov 24th 2009, 6:22pm

OK, you peaked my curiosity: What's a 'gavin', and who is Mike Sparks?

Leo1 · Nov 24th 2009, 6:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

OK, you peaked my curiosity: What's a 'gavin', and who is Mike Sparks?

A 'Gavin' is Mike Sparks phony name for the M113A3 Armored Personnel Carrier.

He's something of an interest kook who hates the USMC, loves the Paratroopers, hates the Stryker (or any other form of wheeled vehicles) and thinks the M113A3 (airdropped) is the solution to all the US military's problems.

He ran (runs?) an amateurish geocities type website that reads like many kooky websites.

IIRC the few legitimate arguments he makes about wheels vs tracks and deficiencies / ideas for change to changes in equipment are totally obscured in a sea of BS.

**Douglas Nicol** · Nov 25th 2009, 1:30pm

He also seems to have spammed the M113 discussion page in Wikipedia with the reasoning that "a lot of people in authority call the M113 the Gavin".

JC, Interrupted · Nov 25th 2009, 4:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo1

He ran (runs?) an amateurish geocities type website that reads like many kooky websites.

It used to be on Geocities; I remember stumbling across it in my early teens and thinking he sounded pretty convincing except for the obvious extreme obsession with the "Gavin".

**CommanderRazor** · Nov 25th 2009, 5:43pm

I honestly have no issue with it being called the Gavin, or any other sort of convenient name. We like naming our vehicles because using 'M-(insert random alphanumeric designation) is annoying unless the alphanumeric itself is very short and rolls off the tongue well.

(Believe me, I am clearly reminded of this because I had to help out with going through my troop's military vehicle license roster in the office for most of the duty day, detailing exactly what types of vics each soldier in my troop is qualified to operate. We really need to move away from the M-Everything crap. It all starts to look the same after a while, ya know?

)

Soldiers like short, simple, and handy names. Em-One, Brad, Vic, Track, Truck, Ma Deuce, Em-Four, Stinger, Javvie, Barrett, Two-Oh-Three, Mark, 'bang, shottie, Em-Nine, Cougar, Em-Rap, Apache, Blackhawk, Little Bird, the list goes on.

So, in that light, I would prefer having a handy name to supplant "Em-One-One-Three-Ay-Two/Ay-Three". The closest you get to that is 'tread box', and even that's a rare term. I've yet to hear anyone call it a Rhino, though.

Aside from that, the problem with ol' Sparky isn't that he's utterly and totally wrong about his claims. No, in more than a few cases he's indeed correct or at least not wrong. However, he exaggerates a LOT, and his presentation is on the obsessive to psychotic side of things. He's basically a frothing at the mouth arm chair type.

Minohtar · Nov 25th 2009, 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Nicol

He also seems to have spammed the M113 discussion page in Wikipedia with the reasoning that "a lot of people in authority call the M113 the Gavin".

I'm going to go out on a limb here and point out I don't think I've ever heard a military type call it anything other than a Gavin... not even M113. Granted, my unit doesn't use them, but we've had people from units that *did* and they still called it a Gavin. So, honestly, however hokey other of his ideas may be, I don't really mind that one.

In the big realm of things his absurd ideas about their usage, or bringing back big-gun battleships etc etc are more silly and potentially hurtful to the military than some naming squabble.

EDIT: Also, Razor does bring up a point. Soldiers generally prefer "real" names for things instead of numerical designations. It's what we tend to use, with the exception of some small arms. Half the time people don't even know the proper military designation. What's an M998 again?

Desert Fox · Nov 25th 2009, 10:18pm

The Dinos at tanknet never heard the term "Gavin"
They just use M113

Minohtar · Nov 25th 2009, 10:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Fox

The Dinos at tanknet never heard the term "Gavin"
They just use M113

Dinos? I'm not familiar with the term. And I've heard plenty of competent, intelligent NCOs with many years in the army call it just that.

*shrug*

Ultimately I think people just get pissy over it because the guy produces other, far more outlandish claims.

Desert Fox · Nov 25th 2009, 10:37pm

Dinos meaning most of them were in tanks before many of the members of Spacebattles were born......

I am considered a youngster there at 41......

Minohtar · Nov 25th 2009, 11:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Fox

Dinos meaning most of them were in tanks before many of the members of Spacebattles were born......

I am considered a youngster there at 41......

So... people old enough that they're probably no longer in service, and are thus out of touch with what people (especially lower enlisted) in the Army actually call things nowadays?

Desert Fox · Nov 26th 2009, 12:23am

Well, it sounds like CM does not use the term either?

Minohtar · Nov 26th 2009, 12:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Fox

Well, it sounds like CM does not use the term either?

CM? I presume you're speaking of some sort of official makers of Army designations? So? Troops have given their equipment unofficial names since the beginning of time. Doesn't automatically make it wrong... and I'll take what they say over the opinion of a bunch of out-of-date old guys on a forum, to be honest. Seems more like stick-in-the-mudism to me than anything else. "Well back when *I* was in the Army *we* called it the blah blah blaaaah!"

Great! Now you're out of the Army and another generation has replaced you and we do things different.

Like I said, I think it's just another tempest in a teapot being blown out of proportion because one of the main internet supporters is a loony nutbar.

Desert Fox · Nov 26th 2009, 1:00am

Excuse me, CR....Commander Razor...Sorry about that

The Norseman · Nov 26th 2009, 2:50am

Combat Reform one of Mike Sparks great websites, do go there, read, find it awesome, tell me what you think! :-D

Roi Danton · Nov 27th 2009, 6:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC, Interrupted

It used to be on Geocities; I remember stumbling across it in my early teens and thinking he sounded pretty convincing except for the obvious extreme obsession with the "Gavin".

A as friend of mine used to say: Everyone has a fetish.

Shadowknight · Nov 28th 2009, 3:29pm

@Razor: Ya missed one. The M-561. The Gamma Goat. As for the M-113 A2/A3s, all we called 'em was one-one-threes. Of course that was rather a while back in the '80s.

Nov 20th 2009, 10:45pm	#1
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	"Phoney" Military Historical Sites When I up in New Hampshire, I visited a 6 inch coastal battery location from World War II. They had shells that they claimed where for the 6 inch mm guns but they were far larger than that....Probably 16 inch shells. Anybody seen anything like this as far as being phoney? __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 21st 2009, 4:23am	#2
Torr Samaho Servant of the Matter Join Date: 22 Oct 2003 Location: MATERIA Posts: 5,238	any site dedicated to the "gavin" ? __________________ Centuries from now, when humanity lives a bleak, hellish existence, your name is uttered only as a curse - Inquisitor 4.2 C:\Hope\Human_Race.EXE ERROR FILE NOT FOUND - Killah Oh my god, it's full of stupid - foamy

Nov 21st 2009, 4:25am	#3
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	True...True....but I really mean physical not virtual locations __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 24th 2009, 6:22pm	#6
Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know? Join Date: 6 Sep 2005 Location: Right behind you, with a HERRING! Posts: 4,777	OK, you peaked my curiosity: What's a 'gavin', and who is Mike Sparks? __________________ "There is no such thing as an 'inhuman act', for there is no act so vile that one cannot find a human willing, or even eager, to commit it." -- A. G. Lyman (in other words, me) Davy Crockett is one of those things that lets MechWarriors know that yes, this infantry [is] quite angry at them. -- Peter2005 Anyone clicking on this link deserves to get Rick Rolled.

Nov 25th 2009, 1:30pm	#8
Douglas Nicol Jadefalcon Supermoderator Super-Moderati Join Date: 1 Apr 2001 Location: Clan Jade Falcon stronghold of Ayr, Scotland Posts: 26,318	He also seems to have spammed the M113 discussion page in Wikipedia with the reasoning that "a lot of people in authority call the M113 the Gavin". __________________ I am Aragorn, of the line of Isildur, a founding member of the Tolkien Cult I, Dave Lister, am a founding member of the Red Dwarf group. Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about.-Natasha Kerensky I will not make any deals with you. I've resigned. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own - Number 6

Nov 25th 2009, 5:43pm	#10
CommanderRazor Fear Me But Follow! Moderati Join Date: 9 Jun 2000 Location: Ft. Knox, babysitting the Army's new orificers Posts: 10,456	I honestly have no issue with it being called the Gavin, or any other sort of convenient name. We like naming our vehicles because using 'M-(insert random alphanumeric designation) is annoying unless the alphanumeric itself is very short and rolls off the tongue well. (Believe me, I am clearly reminded of this because I had to help out with going through my troop's military vehicle license roster in the office for most of the duty day, detailing exactly what types of vics each soldier in my troop is qualified to operate. We really need to move away from the M-Everything crap. It all starts to look the same after a while, ya know?) Soldiers like short, simple, and handy names. Em-One, Brad, Vic, Track, Truck, Ma Deuce, Em-Four, Stinger, Javvie, Barrett, Two-Oh-Three, Mark, 'bang, shottie, Em-Nine, Cougar, Em-Rap, Apache, Blackhawk, Little Bird, the list goes on. So, in that light, I would prefer having a handy name to supplant "Em-One-One-Three-Ay-Two/Ay-Three". The closest you get to that is 'tread box', and even that's a rare term. I've yet to hear anyone call it a Rhino, though. Aside from that, the problem with ol' Sparky isn't that he's utterly and totally wrong about his claims. No, in more than a few cases he's indeed correct or at least not wrong. However, he exaggerates a LOT, and his presentation is on the obsessive to psychotic side of things. He's basically a frothing at the mouth arm chair type. __________________ One crewman, many vehicles, more weapons, any time. Veni Vidi Impetro Pulsus Sursum…Bis (To Come. To see. To get blown up...Twice.) "You're asking RAZOR what the gear he's packing is FOR? Obviously he knows what he's doing, or he wouldn't pack it." - AdmiralTigercla

Nov 25th 2009, 10:18pm	#12
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	The Dinos at tanknet never heard the term "Gavin" They just use M113 __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 25th 2009, 10:37pm	#14
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	Dinos meaning most of them were in tanks before many of the members of Spacebattles were born...... I am considered a youngster there at 41...... __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 26th 2009, 12:23am	#16
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	Well, it sounds like CM does not use the term either? __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 26th 2009, 1:00am	#18
Desert Fox Vulpine Tank Commander Commodore Join Date: 30 Nov 2003 Location: Riding in my Tank Posts: 13,707	Excuse me, CR....Commander Razor...Sorry about that __________________ If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope of reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed - Albert Einstein, German-born American Physicist

Nov 26th 2009, 2:50am	#19
The Norseman Registered Join Date: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 1,518	Combat Reform one of Mike Sparks great websites, do go there, read, find it awesome, tell me what you think! :-D

Nov 28th 2009, 3:29pm	#21
Shadowknight Registered Join Date: 8 Dec 2007 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 1,989	@Razor: Ya missed one. The M-561. The Gamma Goat. As for the M-113 A2/A3s, all we called 'em was one-one-threes. Of course that was rather a while back in the '80s.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: