Win the civil war for the confederates

[El-Diablo13]

Keep in mind their goal was to simply be allowed to separate, NOT conquer the north. OK, you've been given total command of the sotuhern army and navy commands. How would you win the war? If it's just not possible, the south gets and additional fully armed 200,000 soldiers, with enough ammunition, food, and cannon produced in the south to keep up with them.

[PhantomVX2000]

Just out of curiousity, what about of their loyalty?

[Esoterica]

1. Free the slaves.

2. Don't fire on Fort Sumter.

This makes the possibility of European assistance much more likely, and doesn't let the Union rally around emancipation, and forces the North to fire the first shots. If the war was solely to preserve the Union, I think it will lose popular support faster.

I think other things, like not invading the North, would work in the South's favor. IMO it would be entirely possible for the South to win by simply making victory not worth the cost to the Union.

[Stratigo]

Win Gettysburg and hope that brings European intervention.

[El-Diablo13]

Originally Posted by PhantomVX2000

Just out of curiousity, what about of their loyalty?

Whose?

Originally Posted by Esoterica

1. Free the slaves.

2. Don't fire on Fort Sumter.

This makes the possibility of European assistance much more likely, and doesn't let the Union rally around emancipation, and forces the North to fire the first shots. If the war was solely to preserve the Union, I think it will lose popular support faster.

I think other things, like not invading the North, would work in the South's favor. IMO it would be entirely possible for the South to win by simply making victory not worth the cost to the Union.

You can't just free the slaves. Doing that would tear apart the confederacy. Giving the states the right to choose on their own was the whole point of the war.

[Dragoon]

Originally Posted by ShadowHyde

You can't just free the slaves. Doing that would tear apart the confederacy. Giving the states the right to choose on their own was the whole point of the war.

Ironically enough, slavery was enshrined in the Confederate constitution - if I recall correctly, it was made unconstitutional to ban slavery. Hardly "State's rights".

The South was all for State's Rights - as long as State's Rights supported their point of view. They were just as willing to use the Federal government to enforce their will on other states (see: the Fugitive Slave Act).

But you're right. Considering their whole government is based upon the "cornerstone" of slavery (you can thank the Confederate vice-president for that one), freeing the slaves is an impossibility.

The best they can do is not fire on Fort Sumter and hope Abe backs down or won't have enough popular support for the war. If a general war comes, they need to play defensive and not invade the North. And then, not parcel troops out to defend every last bit of the Cpnfederacy. Hold onto the Mississippi for dear life - if the Confederacy gets cut in half, as per OTL, then they're boned.

They can't really do much about the blockade, so that's a lost cause anyway.

[Esoterica]

Originally Posted by ShadowHyde

You can't just free the slaves. Doing that would tear apart the confederacy. Giving the states the right to choose on their own was the whole point of the war.

I said what needed to be done. Not what the South was willing to do

Slavery made European assistance nearly impossible, and Lincoln eventually making the war a moral crusade to end slavery meant the North was not going to stop.

I am fully aware that without slavery, about 90% of the reasons that the Civil War occurred in the first place vanish

[SGTschlock]

Originally Posted by Esoterica

1. Free the slaves.

One of the most prominent reasons the deep south rebelled was not even the perception that Lincoln was going to free the slaves, but just the mere threat he'd halt the expansion of slavery into the territories.

Walking in an saying you were going to free the slaves is not a viable option.

[Kodiak1]

In the East, fully embrace defensive warfare. The US is going to come for Richmond because it simply doesn't occur to them to do anything else. They also will continue to launch Napoleonic frontal attacks for several years despite every indication this just doesn't work with the technology present. Exploit this by choosing good ground and fortifying the hell out of it until the Union loses spirit for it.

In the West, the numbers are more even, at least for a while. Is "fight better" a strategy? Pressing the attack at Shiloh rather than losing a couple hours to looting makes for a very different war.

[PhantomVX2000]

Originally Posted by ShadowHyde

Whose?

The troops under my command. Well, are their loyalty 100% absolute? Would they follow whatever I order them even if they are absurdly foolish or suicidal?

[Screwball]

The South needed European intervention, or at least support, to win. OTL there were movements in Britain and France sympathetic to the Confederacy, but they were never powerful enough to convince their respective governments to throw their weight behind the Confederacy. In large part, that was because of slavery, especially in Britain.

If you actually want to fight the war and win, you need Europe to come down on your side, otherwise the North will eventually just bury you in men and equipment whatever you do. You can't get European support whilst preserving slavery.

Also, forget about that bloody stupid moratorium on selling cotton for the start of the war. That's the time where the Union blockade isn't effective and you can build up reserves of foreign currency, and historically, the South missed the opportunity they were presented by trying to limit supply and drive up prices. The result was Europe turning to India to supply it's cotton and the North fully implementing it's blockade before the South could do much. It's not going to win the war, but it's not going to hurt either, and might incline the Europeans to try and negotiate a settlement based on separation to restore their cotton supply.

[Sayle]

Take. Little. Fucking. Roundtop.

[Dartan]

Taking Little Round Top isn't possible unless you divert significant troops towards it earlier in the day. Remember, the attack on the hill came late in the day, by troops who had already fought across the Peach Orchard, Devils Den, etc.

[Nonite]

Perhaps recruit colored folks to the army, guaranteeing freedom after X years of service. Or was this tried in the OTL?

Or, I could (try to) design a Sten-analogue with the contemporary materials...

[Dragoon]

Originally Posted by Nonite

Perhaps recruit colored folks to the army, guaranteeing freedom after X years of service. Or was this tried in the OTL?

Or, I could (try to) design a Sten-analogue with the contemporary materials...

A Confederate general who tried proposing something similar to this (using black troops) was quietly told to shut the fuck up and go back to fighting the war.

[Desert Fox]

The Spencer repeater was basically the edge of Union technology for the war....
I don't think the Confederation has the technology for it at all. My understanding is that they could not even reload the casings.

[AllisterH]

Especially with the Brits.

That whole crusade to stomp out slavery made them ALREADY partial to the North.

[Magni]

Originally Posted by Sayle

Take. Little. Fucking. Roundtop.

Doesn't really matter. Even if the Confederates win Gettysburg, it won't change the fact that the Union will grind them into dust by sheer attrittion. Sooner or later, something will break. If not at Gettysburg, then somewhere else.

[Imperator Pax]

Turn this into WWI style trench warfare and bleed the union to death mind you that might be difficult but the union did suffer a great deal of casualties in the war OTL

[Dragoon]

Originally Posted by Imperator Pax

Turn this into WWI style trench warfare and bleed the union to death mind you that might be difficult but the union did suffer a great deal of casualties in the war OTL

Not going to work. The Confederates will break before the Union will - they have less manpower and crappier logistics. See the battles around Richmond and Petersburg in '64 and early '65.

[Screwball]

Especially with the Brits.

That whole crusade to stomp out slavery made them ALREADY partial to the North.

Well, sort of. That's the reason Britain took no action. However, there were serious suggestions that Britain and France should try and broker a peace with the two sides remaining separate, which came about IIRC because of a significant pro-Confederate bloc in Parliament. That's about the most you can hope for without getting rid of slavery, but it might be possible if you played your cards right.

[Rastamon]

1. Don't fire on Ft. Sumter. So when/if the North attacks, the Confederates are not in the wrong.
   
2. Make Columbia, SC the Confederate capital instead of Richmond to take advantage of the hills and mountains surrounding that state for defenses. Dig WW1 style trenches throughout these hills and mountains along with pillboxes a'la the Maginot Line. Do the same on a smaller scale along the Confederate borders facing the North.
   
3. If the North still attacks, win battles as in OTL, but if the tide looks to be turning, resort to guerrilla warfare to prolong the conflict and to bloody the Yanks. Use Tecumseh Sherman's tactics in battles (swift lightning attacks with small forces--tend to defeat larger forces), so instruct General Lee to use such tactics.
   
4. Step up diplomatic efforts for British and French recognition
   
5. (related to step 4) Capture a Union warship, keep flying the Union flag and attack British ships, especially around the time of the Trent Affair to encourage Parliament to declare war on the North or at least recognize the Confederacy
   
6. Make an alliance with Emperor Maximilian of Mexico and use Mexican troops in flanking attacks and raids
   
7. (related to step 6) The alliance with Mexico should be used to soften up the French and Austrians for diplomatic recognition
   
8. Have Confederate agents kidnap Abraham Lincoln (he tended to walk unprotected among Washingtonians--there was no Secret Service at the time). Use him as a hostage to force the North to the negotiating table. Union recognition of the Confederacy's independence shall be the ransom that'd release Lincoln.

[El-Diablo13]

Originally Posted by PhantomVX2000

The troops under my command. Well, are their loyalty 100% absolute? Would they follow whatever I order them even if they are absurdly foolish or suicidal?

You are their Commander, but if you go against the 'lawful' government of the confederacy, or if you try to take over militarily, they won't follow you. They will follow you in nearly all things military related, but if you needless butcher your own men, you will be replaced, and likely hanged.

[Dartan]

Originally Posted by Rastamon

1. ...resort to guerrilla warfare to prolong the conflict and to bloody the Yanks...
   
   
2. (related to step 4) Capture a Union warship, keep flying the Union flag and attack British ships, especially around the time of the Trent Affair to encourage Parliament to declare war on the North or at least recognize the Confederacy
   
   
3. Have Confederate agents kidnap Abraham Lincoln (he tended to walk unprotected among Washingtonians--there was no Secret Service at the time). Use him as a hostage to force the North to the negotiating table. Union recognition of the Confederacy's independence shall be the ransom that'd release Lincoln.
   

You do realize that all of these are in direct contravention of what was seen as the rules of warfare at the time and that the Confederate government would be extremely unlikely to support any of these measures, particularly the last two.

The guerilla warfare is more likely, but still has a low probability, especially since it would ruin the South for even longer than the war did OTL and result in a far more brutal occupation. Basically the South can't hope to win a long war of attrition, that's how they lost in the first place. They need to win fast which probably won't happen, unfortunately for them, since their army is just as green as the Federals.

• Make an alliance with Emperor Maximilian of Mexico and use Mexican troops in flanking attacks and raids
  

  (related to step 6) The alliance with Mexico should be used to soften up the French and Austrians for diplomatic recognition

Maximillian has his own problems right now. Besides, he doesn't even take power until 1864.

[Omega18]

Originally Posted by Dragoon

Not going to work. The Confederates will break before the Union will - they have less manpower and crappier logistics. See the battles around Richmond and Petersburg in '64 and early '65.

What you're missing is those battles were AFTER the Confederacy had lost more men when they tried to go on the offensive at Antietem and Gettysburg.

The general goal with such a strategy would be to get voters so fed up with the war that the Union seeks peace with the Confederacy on terms leaving it independent. If Lincoln wouldn't seek peace, he likely would get voted out in 1864. (Historically it looked like he could lose until Atlanta was taken and Sherman's march to the sea began.)

As I noted when a similar question came up in the past on this forum, as the individual in charge, I would also personally spend some time arranging for the production of barbed wire to strategically suplement Confederate defensive positions. I would also take advantage of knowledge of modern germ theory and have Confederate soldiers' wounds sterilized with alchohol so that a greater percentage of them will recover and can return to combat to partially address the manpower disparity.