"absurd firepower"

[SWPIGWANG]

It is easy to write ever larger yield counts for weapon systems and scale the armor up with them, but for a given locomotion and a way of fighting, there is usually a maximum yield after which makes no sense. For example:

1. Ground units shooting each other a short range when secondary effects from explosions would easily send each other flying for kilometers even without doing damage. Double plus good if they decide to use swords in this setting.

2. Ground units shooting at each other when a small fraction of standard weapon yield is capable of destroying melting the ground the opponent is on, and render the opponent immobile even far from being able to damage his vehicle.

3. Space battleships fighting when the momentum of a projectile is capable of sending the target that is hit rotate at hundreds of rotation per minute without penetration, and despite that, no countermeasures have been attempted.

4. An aircraft that gets blown hundreds of kilometers away with a near miss. Other aerodynamically restricted units have similar problems, like nuke proof blimps and wind powered nuke proof ships and other madness.

5. Non-stealthy underground bunkers against orbital bombardment in a universe where normal starships is actually tough enough to ram a planet, push through it with raw engine power, and come out the other side....

So what settings in Sci-Fi hits this "absurd firepower" issue?

[Hiver]

Galaxy gun - it fires galaxys.

[l33telboi]

Well, let's get the obvious out of the way first. Star Wars should exhibit these sorts of effects. I.e., whenever a Star Destroyer fires it should be flung back like a normal person trying to shoot a 120mm MBT cannon from the shoulder. Anything that’s hit should light up like a miniature sun and also be flung away. Planetary surfaces should melt just by having two starships in orbit slugging it out. And of course, a single stray fighter laser bolt hitting the ground should level everything in sight. Any prolonged fighting in one place should turn the ground underneath the combatants into lava.

Of course that never happens. And with that in mind, I don't think I've ever seen anything that would actually display such fantastic firepower. I do believe the creators realize just how silly stuff like that would look.

[Bishop Gantry]

Futurama... would be a good contender

[Hiver]

I bet The Culture can do this stuff.

[CnB]

I think UC Gundam has high feats, but low written numbers. Like a ten megawatt particle beam blowing up city blocks. Kind of the opposite of what you're going for.

[magic9mushroom]

Originally Posted by l33telboi

Well, let's get the obvious out of the way first. Star Wars should exhibit these sorts of effects. I.e., whenever a Star Destroyer fires it should be flung back like a normal person trying to shoot a 120mm MBT cannon from the shoulder. Anything that’s hit should light up like a miniature sun and also be flung away. Planetary surfaces should melt just by having two starships in orbit slugging it out. And of course, a single stray fighter laser bolt hitting the ground should level everything in sight. Any prolonged fighting in one place should turn the ground underneath the combatants into lava.

Of course that never happens. And with that in mind, I don't think I've ever seen anything that would actually display such fantastic firepower. I do believe the creators realize just how silly stuff like that would look.

That's if you take the ICS yields, right? Single-digit GT yields for a barrage from an ISD and scaling down from there wouldn't seem to run into this.

Originally Posted by Hiver

I bet The Culture can do this stuff.

They do. It is one of the few 'verses where you see the term "spare planet". As in "oh well, if our testing of this new idea fucks up, it'll be blasted to bits, so we better use a spare planet". And this is in Consider Phlebas, the Culture has advanced well beyond that in the novels since.

[Torr Samaho]

Originally Posted by magic9mushroom

That's if you take the ICS yields, right? Single-digit GT yields for a barrage from an ISD and scaling down from there wouldn't seem to run into this.

do turbolasers cause a reaction of the firing ship like engines do (that is the ship moving away in the opposite direction)? sounds silly, but indeed you never see this despite the yields.

They do. It is one of the few 'verses where you see the term "spare planet". As in "oh well, if our testing of this new idea fucks up, it'll be blasted to bits, so we better use a spare planet". And this is in Consider Phlebas, the Culture has advanced well beyond that in the novels since.

iirc culture ships can fuck up a planet by braking too hard, so literally the last point of the OP.

[Avernus]

Thing is, the Culture has tricks like shunting energy into hyperspace; I don't think they qualify because there are actually reasons for both why they need the kind of firepower they have and why it doesn't do things like fling them around etc. As opposed to the example above of Star Wars where the problem is just ignored.

[magic9mushroom]

Originally Posted by Avernus

Thing is, the Culture has tricks like shunting energy into hyperspace; I don't think they qualify because there are actually reasons for both why they need the kind of firepower they have and why it doesn't do things like fling them around etc. As opposed to the example above of Star Wars where the problem is just ignored.

And also, they actually have to worry about pulping their passengers and their hulls when accelerating. Unlike SW, which can take non-relativistic to 1 billion c in seconds. Artoo flying back in TESB should have been flying back superluminally and impacted the back wall with (even assuming relativity doesn't apply) a force large enough to smash planets. Who needs the Death Star?

[l33telboi]

Originally Posted by magic9mushroom

That's if you take the ICS yields, right? Single-digit GT yields for a barrage from an ISD and scaling down from there wouldn't seem to run into this.

Those yields, yes. ~10 Petatons per second from weapons on an ISD.

[grdja]

For those who averted these mistakes/tropes I'd nominate Bolo's and Total Annihilation. "Glassing planets just from surface combat, sure we do it all the time." Yes, in a lot of Boloverse stories they do underestimate the firepower, but enough writers got it right.

[CnB]

I don't think Star Wars is that bad. They mention things like inertial dampeners fairly often.

[Hiver]

Dahak verse got pretty good firepower^^

[magic9mushroom]

Originally Posted by CnB

I don't think Star Wars is that bad. They mention things like inertial dampeners fairly often.

Which are a handwave...

And it still ignores the fact that with ICS yields and commanders that aren't pants on head retarded, the movies would NOT have happened as they did. AOTC is one of the most egregrious examples.

[SWPIGWANG]

TA actually gets it wrong, very wrong, because it makes no sense to have ocean going ships if the nearest stray hit vaporizes the ocean to the extent that the crafts beach or cause a huge vapor explosion that flips ship easily.

I'd love to see a TA battle where K-Bots have to literally swim through lava to get to the opponent.... but one wonders if walking really works when the ground below is molten goo like substance...

[CnB]

Originally Posted by magic9mushroom

Which are a handwave...

What, you want a working schematic? It's no worse than drilling into a parallel universe and unleashing exatons of energy on your foes.

[Avernus]

Originally Posted by magic9mushroom

Which are a handwave...

And at any rate, inertial dampeners would only negate shipboard momentum problems like being tossed around by firing and by incoming fire. It doesn't do a thing to explain the lack of gigantic fireballs and massive collateral damage.

[CnB]

Originally Posted by Avernus

And at any rate, inertial dampeners would only negate shipboard momentum problems like being tossed around by firing and by incoming fire. It doesn't do a thing to explain the lack of gigantic fireballs and massive collateral damage.

Because planet-sized character shields haven't been invented yet, that's why.

[Weyoun the Dancing Borg]

Originally Posted by CnB

What, you want a working schematic? It's no worse than drilling into a parallel universe and unleashing exatons of energy on your foes.

The Grid is not an alternate universe.

[magic9mushroom]

Originally Posted by CnB

Because planet-sized character shields haven't been invented yet, that's why.

What the hell is this meant to mean? It's a total non sequitur.

Wait, you aren't another Bear Lover sockpuppet, are you?

[l33telboi]

Go easy on him. He's new, and I like him.

*hugs CnB and tussles his hair*

[magic9mushroom]

Originally Posted by l33telboi

Go easy on him. He's new, and I like him.

*hugs CnB and tussles his hair*

I'm serious. It feels just like arguing with SpaceBattler, and SpaceBattler was a Bear Lover sockpuppet IIRC.

[CnB]

Originally Posted by Weyoun the Dancing Borg

The Grid is not an alternate universe.

I said parallel. Would it be wrong to say that the Grid runs alongside the Culture-verse? Maybe I should have said dimension or something, but suffice to say I didn't mean to imply that it was anything like a Sliders' episode.

What the hell is this meant to mean? It's a total non sequitur.

Just that the heroic Jedi, fighter pilot, or smuggler wouldn't last very long if world ending amounts of energy were being thrown around. No dramatic escapes or close brushes with death. At that kind of level, you're pretty much either dead before you even know it or you're not.

Wait, you aren't another Bear Lover sockpuppet, are you?

Now would you mind explaining this to me?

[magic9mushroom]

Originally Posted by CnB

Just that the heroic Jedi, fighter pilot, or smuggler wouldn't last very long if world ending amounts of energy were being thrown around. No dramatic escapes or close brushes with death. At that kind of level, you're pretty much either dead before you even know it or you're not.

Exactly, that's the point of what we were saying.

Now would you mind explaining this to me?

Bear_Lover.