The best and worst occupation forces in SF.

Agent23 · Nov 27th 2009, 4:15pm

So,after all the fighting is done the conquerors must take control of their spoils.
Who can do this in the most effective and/or civilized manner.
And who fails at one or both of the two miserably.
Some suggestions-the two races that occupied earth prior to humaniti going apeshit on the rest of the galaxy in the Xeelee books,but at least the second race that was made up of intelligent molecules I think was more or less efficient at keeping Earth productive and suppressing any insurrections.
The lizards from "Worldwar" were fairly incompetent and extremely good at pissing conquered humans off,but in their defence it should be said that they weren't cruel just unadaptable and different.
The Combain-need I even mention all their attrocities?
And to top it all off they went down fairly easily.

Hiver · Nov 27th 2009, 4:17pm

Daleks.

Agent23 · Nov 27th 2009, 4:32pm

Damn,I forgot to mention the Barrayarans as one of the competent ones up there,Solstice massacre and with Aral or one of the more moderate or pragmatic ones at the helm,of course.
And while we are on the subject-the Cetagandans,while they have shown that they can suppress the locals in some pretty creative ways their track record is not very impressive-being forced to retreat once by the population of a backwards cul de sac
that was probably at Renaissance Europe's level of development,and another time by the Marilakans.

1812 · Nov 27th 2009, 5:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiver

Daleks.

Hmmm... Daleks on the whole tend not to be the "occupying" type. They tend to prefer another approach... which is sort of hinted at in their oh so jolly catchphrase...

Hiver · Nov 27th 2009, 5:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1812

Hmmm... Daleks on the whole tend not to be the "occupying" type. They tend to prefer another approach... which is sort of hinted at in their oh so jolly catchphrase...

I think i remember they have been occubying a few times.

1812 · Nov 27th 2009, 5:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiver

I think i remember they have been occubying a few times.

Well, I guess even the Daleks need a break from omnicide every once in a while. Perhaps conquest and occupation is their equivalent of a nice relaxing weekend at the beach.

Agent23 · Nov 27th 2009, 5:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiver

I think i remember they have been occubying a few times.

And I thought that they were out to exterminate all life in the universe.

1812 · Nov 27th 2009, 5:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent23

And I thought that they were out to exterminate all life in the universe.

They are. I guess they just occupy as a means to an end. Or for fun and frolics.

CnB · Nov 27th 2009, 5:49pm

The Combine from Half-Life 2 were effective. Earth was well on it's way to being stripped of all natural resources and it's native population being integrated into the Combine military. Situation seemed quite hopeless until you know who showed up.

Q99 · Nov 27th 2009, 6:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1812

They are. I guess they just occupy as a means to an end. Or for fun and frolics.

Yes. Sometimes they occupy to convert the subjected into tools for their extermination of all else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by argent23

The lizards from "Worldwar" were fairly incompetent and extremely good at pissing conquered humans off,but in their defence it should be said that they weren't cruel just unadaptable and different.

I wouldn't say they were too incompetent considering their hurdles (human recognition being difficult starting out, having to learn cultures on the fly). They were able to hold a lot of territory they took fairly well.

I'd say middling.

SGTschlock · Nov 27th 2009, 6:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q99

They were able to hold a lot of territory they took fairly well.

Yet all the territory they took was either 3rd/2nd world or an extremely minor 1st world power. They absolutely failed to knock any of the big WW2 players out of the game.

Q99 · Nov 27th 2009, 7:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGTschlock

Yet all the territory they took was either 3rd/2nd world or an extremely minor 1st world power. They absolutely failed to knock any of the big WW2 players out of the game.

Due to being military pushed out; we're talking about how good they were at the occupying side of things.

Pooka · Nov 27th 2009, 7:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q99

Due to being military pushed out; we're talking about how good they were at the occupying side of things.

They were also fairly reasonable occupiers; India and much of the British Empire, if I recall, chose to stay with the lizards over going back to the Brits.

OrkKaptin · Nov 27th 2009, 8:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnB

The Combine from Half-Life 2 were effective. Earth was well on it's way to being stripped of all natural resources and it's native population being integrated into the Combine military. Situation seemed quite hopeless until you know who showed up.

Curse you, I was going to say that.

CnB · Nov 27th 2009, 8:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrkKaptin

Curse you, I was going to say that.

Best part is the Occupation Force was almost completely homegrown, using Earth's own resources and population to subjugate and control the rest. We never really saw the actual Combine military in the game.

Shadowknight · Nov 27th 2009, 8:10pm

The Domination of the Draka. They were effective, no matter what we might think of their morals or ethics.

Q99 · Nov 27th 2009, 8:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowknight

The Domination of the Draka. They were effective, no matter what we might think of their morals or ethics.

Eh... by plot fiat. They were brutal, often had to put down revolts, and pretty much their entire society was focused on the task.

They managed to get the job done, but it was far from efficient.

Damar · Nov 28th 2009, 12:28am

The Dominion apparently doesn't need occupation garrisons for the planets under it's grasp.

"You do what the Vorta tell you to do. If you do not, they will send in the Jem'hadar. And than you die."

Inquisitor Ryan · Nov 28th 2009, 1:25am

The Imperium: You rebel, they move in, slaughter everyone involved and continue on by letting the world in question choose its own replacement government. The Imperium lets you rule pretty much how you like so long as you pay your Tithes on time (and obey the rather specific laws)

Efficient and relatively humane in most cases (they don't slaughter the grunts if they don't have to, in fact most cases you hear involve the Astartes or Assassin Temples conducting decapitation strikes.)

Galahad · Nov 28th 2009, 2:59am

The IoM makes Zimbabwe look like a model of an efficient and progressive state I am afraid.

Inquisitor Ryan · Nov 28th 2009, 3:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad

The IoM makes Zimbabwe look like a model of an efficient and progressive state I am afraid.

Then you know nothing about it go away.

magic9mushroom · Nov 28th 2009, 3:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Ryan

Then you know nothing about it go away.

Bwahahahahaha.

The Imperium? Efficient? Don't make us laugh.

Asmodemus · Nov 28th 2009, 3:13am

The IOM is mostly efficient, it's just that with needing worlds dedicated to bureaucracy and travel between different places being more hazardous than during the days of the British Empire it tends to look inefficient on the outside. The bigger the empire the more opportunities for things to get screwed up. If the Adeptus Administratum was replaced with the people in charge of the Tau Empire's logistics or many other fictional nations the whole Imperium would fall apart.

As always the stories and fluff tend to focus on the worst aspects because those are the most interesting, not "Uninvaded Agri-World #2304" or "Smoothly running Administratum office #7000892".

magic9mushroom · Nov 28th 2009, 3:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asmodemus

The IOM is mostly efficient, it's just that with needing worlds dedicated to bureaucracy and travel between different places being more hazardous than during the days of the British Empire it tends to look inefficient on the outside. The bigger the empire the more opportunities for things to get screwed up. If the Adeptus Administratum was replaced with the people in charge of the Tau Empire's logistics or many other fictional nations the whole Imperium would fall apart.

As always the stories and fluff tend to focus on the worst aspects because those are the most interesting, not "Uninvaded Agri-World #2304" or "Smoothly running Administratum office #7000892".

It ran better under the Emperor, right?

Asmodemus · Nov 28th 2009, 3:48am

Damn straight.

Nov 27th 2009, 4:15pm	#1
Agent23 Registered Join Date: 29 May 2006 Posts: 1,200	The best and worst occupation forces in SF. So,after all the fighting is done the conquerors must take control of their spoils. Who can do this in the most effective and/or civilized manner. And who fails at one or both of the two miserably. Some suggestions-the two races that occupied earth prior to humaniti going apeshit on the rest of the galaxy in the Xeelee books,but at least the second race that was made up of intelligent molecules I think was more or less efficient at keeping Earth productive and suppressing any insurrections. The lizards from "Worldwar" were fairly incompetent and extremely good at pissing conquered humans off,but in their defence it should be said that they weren't cruel just unadaptable and different. The Combain-need I even mention all their attrocities? And to top it all off they went down fairly easily.

Nov 28th 2009, 12:28am	#18
Damar Criticism Is Futile Join Date: 3 Sep 2004 Location: Cardassia Prime Posts: 37,336	The Dominion apparently doesn't need occupation garrisons for the planets under it's grasp. "You do what the Vorta tell you to do. If you do not, they will send in the Jem'hadar. And than you die." __________________ I am Damar, Schmott Guy of SB, Defender of the Cardassians "When your car hits a guy and his body goes fly, that's a dead guy." -Tom Servo Best of RiffTrax: Best of RiffTrax's Titanic

Nov 28th 2009, 2:59am	#20
Galahad Walking tank Join Date: 15 Aug 2005 Location: Entering upper atmosphere via Covenant Dropship Posts: 667	The IoM makes Zimbabwe look like a model of an efficient and progressive state I am afraid. __________________ Awaiting further instructions !

Nov 28th 2009, 3:48am	#25
Asmodemus Clinical Test Subject Join Date: 4 Nov 2009 Posts: 1,769	Damn straight. __________________ The only constant is Chaos This is WH40K. It's very badly for all sides, and it never ends. -robertliguori

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Nov 27th 2009, 4:17pm	#2
Hiver Registered Join Date: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 1,280	Daleks. __________________ ‘Opinion as to what?’ Karrish said, with a shade of hysteria, as the image rotated in front of them all. ‘Precisely how little sense they make? The tentacle count per square metre? An evolutionary path that has to add up to “a wizard did it, and then they ate him”? -The reaction of Karrish, medical officer on the first Imperial Star Destroyer running into the Tyranids

Nov 27th 2009, 4:32pm	#3
Agent23 Registered Join Date: 29 May 2006 Posts: 1,200	Damn,I forgot to mention the Barrayarans as one of the competent ones up there,Solstice massacre and with Aral or one of the more moderate or pragmatic ones at the helm,of course. And while we are on the subject-the Cetagandans,while they have shown that they can suppress the locals in some pretty creative ways their track record is not very impressive-being forced to retreat once by the population of a backwards cul de sac that was probably at Renaissance Europe's level of development,and another time by the Marilakans.

Nov 27th 2009, 5:49pm	#9
CnB Registered Join Date: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 1,308	The Combine from Half-Life 2 were effective. Earth was well on it's way to being stripped of all natural resources and it's native population being integrated into the Combine military. Situation seemed quite hopeless until you know who showed up.

Nov 27th 2009, 8:10pm	#16
Shadowknight Registered Join Date: 8 Dec 2007 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 1,989	The Domination of the Draka. They were effective, no matter what we might think of their morals or ethics.

Nov 28th 2009, 3:13am	#23
Asmodemus Clinical Test Subject Join Date: 4 Nov 2009 Posts: 1,769	The IOM is mostly efficient, it's just that with needing worlds dedicated to bureaucracy and travel between different places being more hazardous than during the days of the British Empire it tends to look inefficient on the outside. The bigger the empire the more opportunities for things to get screwed up. If the Adeptus Administratum was replaced with the people in charge of the Tau Empire's logistics or many other fictional nations the whole Imperium would fall apart. As always the stories and fluff tend to focus on the worst aspects because those are the most interesting, not "Uninvaded Agri-World #2304" or "Smoothly running Administratum office #7000892". __________________ The only constant is Chaos This is WH40K. It's very badly for all sides, and it never ends. -robertliguori

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