SW Broadsides

[Admiral Vice]

The topic of broadside naval engagements has come up on the boards in the past, and with the release of RoTS, started again. I suppose I have a couple new, ( or I hope they're new) questions revolving around SW naval doctrine.

I suppose the most important question would be has any source in the EU explained or hinted at what sort of naval doctrine the IN adheres to? From the movies, we get a sense that GL, or someone else involved with the writing/FX was going for an Age of Sail/WWI vis a vis capital ship battles, and WWII stylized combat with regards to fighters. I know Zahn detailed some descriptions of naval combat in the HttE trilogy, but for the most part, it didn't go into detail ( although we did learn that SDs are not meant to be used for hit and fade actions and are better suited to slog matches). If the answer to the first question can be found or at least extrapolated, the second question would be, what are the effective and maximum ranges for cap ship energy weapons and guided munitions? In the instances where cap ship combat has been seen onscreen, most all ships seemed to close to distances well inder 1km with a max range of no more than 10km. The instances that come readily to mind are RoTS (a Venator SD closing with the Invisible Hand) and RoTJ ( a Nebulon B closing and engaging an ISD).

It seems that ships in SW rely overmuch on the energy weapons at the cost of guided munitions like missiles and torpedoes. In the movies, and in the EU, one would expect engagements between fleets or single ship duels to open up with missile bombardments from effective rage. This would in effect, not only help tie up an enemy force's PD, but also obviously keep them otherwise occupied, if only temporarily. As it is now, cap ships close to ridiculously short ranges to exchange energy broadsides that might otherwise be accomplished from ranges exceeding at least 100,000 km. Why?

[Zarathos]

When it goes about movies it's easy to explan. Long range fighting dont look cool.
From the same reason ST ships dont fight and 300.000 km but at few hundred meters maks.

In books. Well, in NJO I think they were fighting a ship from max inderdiction range using torpedos. but it wa mostly also in energy weapons range.

Also more brilliant tacticians (Bel Iblis) in Thrawn trilogy were using torps from fighters to do the job. But it was "more brilliant". And it was specified that using torps against cap-ships was "brillian" so GE/OR/NR captains and admirals are idiots (sorry, it seem so).

Also, I think in one of the Thrawn books it was stated that torpedos must be fired either in extremely big numbers or below minium range - if not enemy will easily shot them down. That could be explanation.

[Leo1]

Originally Posted by Admiral Vice

The topic of broadside naval engagements has come up on the boards in the past, and with the release of RoTS, started again. I suppose I have a couple new, ( or I hope they're new) questions revolving around SW naval doctrine.

I suppose the most important question would be has any source in the EU explained or hinted at what sort of naval doctrine the IN adheres to?

Not that I'm aware.

If the answer to the first question can be found or at least extrapolated, the second question would be, what are the effective and maximum ranges for cap ship energy weapons and guided munitions? In the instances where cap ship combat has been seen onscreen, most all ships seemed to close to distances well inder 1km with a max range of no more than 10km. The instances that come readily to mind are RoTS (a Venator SD closing with the Invisible Hand) and RoTJ ( a Nebulon B closing and engaging an ISD).

Well, that's because they're the only images that exist, since they're the only two canon space battles. In any case, the RotS novelization indicates capital ships were engaging each other at ranges of hundreds of kilometres at the same battle. In RotJ, the novelization calls the ranges being engaged at "astromonically close", "tanks at 20 paces"- i.e. extremely atypical combat for these ships. Admiral Ackbar tells Lando the same when Lando says to engage at point blank in the novel, and though that exchange is not in the film, it does provide extra context to the above descriptors.

It seems that ships in SW rely overmuch on the energy weapons at the cost of guided munitions like missiles and torpedoes. In the movies, and in the EU, one would expect engagements between fleets or single ship duels to open up with missile bombardments from effective rage. This would in effect, not only help tie up an enemy force's PD, but also obviously keep them otherwise occupied, if only temporarily. As it is now, cap ships close to ridiculously short ranges to exchange energy broadsides that might otherwise be accomplished from ranges exceeding at least 100,000 km. Why?

The RotS novelization refers to the massed use of torpedoes and torpedo tubes are listed as the armament of many of the RotS capital ships.

As to why in both situations they go so close, it's because it looks cool. In universe-

RotS: close-range combat (point blank to hundreds of kms) to prevent the escape of the Separatist fleet, blocking off any potential hyperjump routes (referred to in the capship attack on IH).

RotJ: point blank range to prevent the Death Star II from picking off Rebel ships at will due to the risk of destroying friendly ships (implied in the movie "we'll last longer than we will against that Death Star!" and stated explicitly in the novelization).

[higbvuyb]

Originally Posted by Leo1

RotS: close-range combat (point blank to hundreds of kms) to prevent the escape of the Separatist fleet, blocking off any potential hyperjump routes (referred to in the capship attack on IH).

Don't planet's gravity fields prevent hyperspace jumps?

And with the 'lightspeed' turbolasers, SW ships are so slow that they get hit by shots that take several seconds to get there?

[PainRack]

Originally Posted by higbvuyb

Don't planet's gravity fields prevent hyperspace jumps?

Not exactly. ANH novelisation stated that the gravity field affects the jump and Han would had to compensate for it. Although of course, there has to be an upper limit to this. I'm too lazy to bother digging up my old hyperspace model that explains this.

And with the 'lightspeed' turbolasers, SW ships are so slow that they get hit by shots that take several seconds to get there?

IIRC, Mad postulates that turbolasers may require several seconds to "power" up.

[higbvuyb]

In EU novels, gravity wells can prevent ships from hyperspacing out of the system. That may be an exageration, but I think a planet or star would have a great effect as well.

[Leo1]

Originally Posted by higbvuyb

In EU novels, gravity wells can prevent ships from hyperspacing out of the system. That may be an exageration, but I think a planet or star would have a great effect as well.

It's not an EU thing. It was first stated in the ANH novelization. It's mentioned again in RotS (Obi-Wan's escape from Utapau in Grievous' fighter).

The ships were that close to prevent a runup to a hyperjump- i.e. leaving the gravity field. Engaging at long range would be utterly ineffective at preventing escape in that context. A Dreadnought-class heavy cruiser placed itself in front of the Inivisible Hand for this purpose (it was basically a shattered hulk by this time, the IH smashed it pretty good IIRC- my friend borrwed by RotS novelization so I can't check).

[PainRack]

Originally Posted by higbvuyb

In EU novels, gravity wells can prevent ships from hyperspacing out of the system. That may be an exageration, but I think a planet or star would have a great effect as well.

There is an effect, however, it isn't the "can't jump" syndrome that ppl think it is.

I don't wish to put up the supporting quotes and evidence, but essentially, going to hyperspace is a literal run up in normal space before going to superluminial speeds, a mixture of dimensional travel while interacting with realspace. The planet gravity well "affects" the jump by introducing stress factors into the jump, just as any mass shadow will. The shearing forces however can be compensated for, if you know where they are previously. Of course, there will be a certain limit where the forces are obviously too strong and this would be ship dependent.
Ships being emplaced in one path is another inhibititor to jumping, as it interferes with the realspace run-up.