A different Earth in 40k: A Glorious Golden Future? Part 9

Given that precognition is one of his themes/powers, it is almost certain that he has detection Charms that are likely perfect or semi perfect effects.

Don't care, it's a perfect defense. The big balancing downside is its epic cost, and I'm thinking about making both motes and willpower be committed for the duration.

Hiding things isn't a defense, actually. There are other perfect "you do not see/notice me" effects in the Exalted system, and when they contest a perfect detection Charm it becomes a roll off.

Again: Concept-hax Astrological Dodge Charm, not Stealth. Dodging is a defense.

Ah, poorly defined powers. Is there no problem you can't solve?

Sorry, I don't buy it. It may not count as a stealth charm for anima purposes, but it still functions in the same way other "you do not notice me" charms do. A defense is preventing someone from acting upon you, not acting upon them. You don't get to use a defense to dictate how someone else acts.

And that's why you're playing an Infernal and I'm playing a Sidereal.

It doesn't work the way other notice-me-not Charms do. Other Stealth Charms work by trying to hide the character. Link is not hiding when he uses this Charm. His opponent is "attacking" him with his eyes - or spies, or intuition - and Link is dodging, and using a perfect defense to dodge.

This is just the way Sidereals work. It's the same Nasu-y conceptual thinking that lets a Sidereal roll Dex+Dodge to dodge a social attack - or to move a city. Sidereals simply are weird.

And if you're concerned about power levels... don't be. This is tame compared to most Astrological Charms. Inevitability Without Finesse is a Combo'd unfooable perfect attack with a multiple tick perfect defense. Student and Sifu Unity lets a Sidereal use an entire Martial Art if she knows the first Charm. This is well within Sidereal thematics.

the final Charm in that path....

Dodge Responsibility

Yeah, don't get so worked up over it Robot, the only one who's really going to be fucked by this is Tzeentch--not the least being that every time Link uses an Astrological Charm, it becomes harder for him to employ any of those rube golburg Fate Hax that he's fond of.

I don't have any critical issues with the writeup on first glance. Having to buy a college up to 5 is a pretty nasty requirement, so I can see this being largely appropriate. The basic idea and core roll are fine, but some details could use tweaking. The willpower to extend bit needs work, I feel, but I'll need time to consider alternatives.

I'm not sure if this should have a keyword of some sort, and the whole 'perfect on perfect' issue will require more thought. One idea is that it could only be considered a defense if you are not performing any 'offensive' actions during this time, otherwise it could trigger a rolloff. But like I said, needs some time to think on the matter.


Also, when shards comes out, I may choose to switch to its new Simple Astrology, so this may never happen; but currently, use of Astrology charms shatter existing fateweavings in an area based on the Essence minimum needed to learn that charm. By Essence 5, it breaks existing fates across the Milky Way.

So, does this mean that if Linky uses his Astrological Charms on Earth, it will rip the Shroud to pieces?

And that using a big one will undo pretty much every bit of fatehax that Tzeentch has set up?

I'm not getting worked up over it, I just don't think it works within the system. I could see it perfectly defending against an active attempt to find him, maybe. But strange and exotic does not give an excuse to ignore how the system resolves stuff.
Having it be a perfect defense means that it would beat even Eye of the Unconquered Sun without even a roll off. I can see using Dodge instead of Stealth, but making something count as a defense is a serious, serious system tier hack given the primacy of defense in Exalted. Just have it be a perfect effect, which means it beats anything other than a perfect effect without a roll, then have it add Essence in successes to roll offs against other Perfect effects. That's how the system already handles borderline unbeatable magical effects.

My thoughts on Linky's Charm:

Needs the Illusion Keyword. Mechanically, it's not really a defence (regardless of the fluff text), but it's an attack on the observer's senses that prevents him from perceiving it.

*sigh*

Well, at this point I can just say Cerillian agrees with me, and once again state that no, mechanically, it's a Dodge-based perfect defense. It's not an Illusion, it's not a Stealth Charm, it's just an augmented version of Duck Fate.

And Cerillian - that's fine. Essentially, I can, for example, prepare an assassination unnoticed - but if I want the execution to be passed over, I'll need a roll-off?

Yeah, avoiding someone noticing you is not a defense in Exalted's system, and I cannot recall any Charms that allow you to declare something that is normally not a defense to be one. I can't make a "Punch you into a Duck" Charm that lacks the Shaping keyword, no matter how I manage to punch you into a duck. Can a Sidereal use a Dodge Charm to avoid someone noticing him? Hell yes. Can he treat that attempt as a perfect defense? Hell no. That isn't what a defense is. But as written, it would allow you to sneak past an Essence Six Solar with Eye of the Unconquered Sun active without even having a roll off, and that isn't okay.

It isn't?

It's not okay for the closest thing Sidereals have to Elder Charms, that screws up fateweaving on a galactic scale, requires five dots in a college which is useless for practically anything else, and costs ten freaking motes per use from an Exalt that really doesn't have that many motes to spare, to utterly outclass a spammable Elder Solar Charm?

Also. Again. Dodge, not Stealth. Fluff matters.

Yes, it's still not okay.

Because that same Solar can use that Charm to potentially spot the Unconquered Sun if he was trying to be stealthy. The Highest of Holies with his Temperance-based Perfection, would still have to go into a roll off against somebody with that Charm... a rolloff which he'd probably win because he gets 30 successes, but still.

Making something high-Essence and high requirements, and giving it a good cost, will not allow you to avoid the limitations of the GAME itself; that usually requires Plot. Much like how Zeal was a bad, bad Charm that was rightfully thrown out. (Zeal was in Dreams of the First Age, I believe, and it was an Elder Solar charm that gave them ways to break Perfect Defenses.)

Your Charm isn't as bad as Zeal (because that one was pretty much all-encompassing) but it still messes around with some of the fundamentals of the game.

No, it isn't. Essence six Solar Charms meant to do a single highly specific thing do not get ignored.

Making stuff into perfect defenses is a very, very large deal. One that I doubt is even possible. I am aware it is Dodge, not Stealth. That does not allow you to make your Charm a Perfect Defense when it is not defending against an actual effect. I have not seen any canon Charms that work in that fashion. Sidereal Charms bend the system, they don't overwrite it.

Look, Linky, your Charm currently breaks the game. For example, imagine using it to hide an attack. Your opponent has Surprise Anticipation. Now what?

The problem here comes from trying to declare something that's offensive and affects other characters against their will (making them not notice things) as a defence.

Also, there has never been a perfect defense that lasts longer than a single action, and for damn good reason.

First, it's Essence 5. It's not even Elder.

And as Cerillian said, and as I agreed, that would require a roll-off. If I tried to hide putting an explosive behind a bush, that wouldn't.

Inevitibility Without Finesse. The Greater Arts of Astrology are just that hax. Also, Duck Awareness doesn't, except without a ridiculously high committed cost that only ever works out of combat anyway.

Look, Cerillian apparently disagrees with you, so can we stop arguing?

He said "at first glance" and " But like I said, needs some time to think on the matter."

So no, he's not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone right now, but still considering things. So pointing out things that should be considered is a good thing.

I don't know what that does, but a brief look at the wiki says action-long.

Also, a bit of an elaboration of why I dislike the current version of the Charm: there's no way to defend against it. It's definitely an effect I would WANT to be able to defend against if an opponent was using it, so there's no way it's a defence.

Right. So, what do you mean by a single action?

"Until his DV refreshes" = 1 action

Duck Awareness is no different, except for extended rolls like stealth missions or social attacks - and Elusive Dream Defense is story long.