All-In One Battletech Thread, Revision 5.0 (Manei Domini rule, Frails drool)

Yeah, there's 16 posts left in the old thread so might as well get on with it.

Also, variant suggestions:

Take the Mechbuster. Replace its AC/20 with Vehicular or Heavy Flamers. Rename this variant the 'Manbuster'.

Laugh maniacally as you strafe infantry concentrations with fire from the heavens. It's like having a lot of reusable napalm strikes!

Can you really strafe with only super short range weapons like flamers? Because I'm thinking that 14 flamers or so hitting even a hardened target like a mech would do some pretty nasty things.

This is assuming of course that a mechbuster has sufficient item slots to carry that many weapons.

Edit: From the last thread...

Okay, officially, the rules say that dedicated heat sinks reduce effective heat output of weapons that generate more than 10 heat by 2. So a PPC with dedicated heat sinks only needs 8 heat sink capacity dedicated to it. Dedicating a heat sink is done by the pilot during a turn and the pilot and can only do one sink per turn.

But what if you set up your dedicated heat sinks in advance? Since this would be done before the battle, there'd be plenty of time for it.

Take an Awesome 8Q. It has 3 PPCs and 28 heat sinks. In normal play, using the PPCs requires a 3-3-2 pattern (3-2-3-2 when walking) because using all three constantly would overheat the mech. However, if you gave the PPCs their own dedicated heat sinks, the total heat burden of the PPCs drops from 30 to 24, leaving 4 sinks free for movement and shooting the small laser. The Awesome would then not be slightly undersinked, but oversinked to the point where it can alpha all day while running around like a maniac and still be heat neutral.

And if you're setting this up in advance, it would take a pilot (24 x 10 =) 240 seconds or 3 minutes of work. Which is probably while he's in the hangar instead of on the battlefield where guys might be shooting at him. That way, he can dedicate ALL his attention to making sure he's doing it right, and has techs on hand in case he makes a mistake... assuming he just doesn't tell the techs to set things up that way to begin with.

Using Aerotech rules, they still have 1200m extreme range. It'll be a very low-flying strafing run, but you can do it.

An integrated sink does have it's own drawbacks compared to linked ones. If they aren't enough to compensate for the utility, we can add another disadvantage. What say you MJ?

It mainly affects energy boats like the Awesome.
However mechs like the Thunderhawk don't really need it.

With strict rules adherence, this works, but if it was tried in a gaming group of mine I'd probably not allow it unless you used Vehicular Flamers that use ammo. The main reason for this is that Flamers vent the engine exhaust in a concentrated stream to inflict damage, or use waste heat and unused power to heat atmospheric gases and fire those. While this is a fine idea in general, if you think about it, a fusion engine that's clearly stated to be runnable on a few kilograms of hydrogen can't power that many flamers. Ignoring the fact that the hot gas, given the low density and total thermal energy, would quickly drop in temperature when exposed to air, there's only so much exhaust or power you can use. My suggestion, of course, would be to institute a system for tracking engine output and power use, but that might not go over well.

EDIT: Well, you know what? I'm an idiot. You said Vehicular Flamers already. Or heavies, which also use ammo.

How does everyone else think about C and D's gunman mech, is it against the rules or not?

It defies the rules, completely, and IMO logic and physics. Unless designed very oddly. But it's absolutely awesome. Thus, I suggested it be renamed the Gunmen.

Sorry, didn't get the reference the first time. But if a 100 ton mech with TSM active could use a 20 ton handheld gun and have a bunch of spares on its back using lift hoists right?

And just to be sure, lift hoists can't be used to hold and use weapons, even if they're defined as the mech's hands?

How is it against logic and physics?

The rules are clear that a 100 ton mech with lift hoists, TSM, and a 400 engine can carry 200 tons of stuff and still move at 3/5. That much is not in doubt.

Only whether it can actually USE the weapon it carries like that or not.

Now, what's to stop, say another mech, from tagging along with the Gunman, and, while the Gunman holds up the weapon with the crane/lift hoist, the second mech fires the weapon like it's on a mount?

And thus the mech sized trenches were born.

By the way, does anyone know where turret construction rules are? The immobile kind?

IIRC I recall seeing Hearb saying that one can not use lift hoists to operate weapons. But that was a while ago and before the forum change...


I suppose that it's possible to use the hoist in a more combat oriented way, using weapons from it I would think would not be very accurate, as the item is more optimized for lift capacity than item stabilization. So if allowed should have a hefty to hit penalty like say +2 or higher perhaps +4...

Though the fact that hes is trying to get 100+ tons of "free" weapons out of the system smells like power gaming to me.

Well I see no reason why you could not do it out side of game play as long as you noted that he did so and followed the rest of the rule as well (and I suppose if your gaming buddy's OK ed it), and I suppose if you want to be fair (rules wise) I would be nice to factor in the fail rate as well when performing the linking and adding the extra time to do it again if one failed...

By the way 240 seconds is four minutes not three.

Also evil you missed something, only heat sinks out side of the engine can be used in such a manor (if it's on the critical hits tables it can be used). So if your mech only mounts heat sinks in the engine you can not use this rule.

So the Awesome 8Q only has 19 heat sinks to use with this rule, two PPCs can be used with this rule as such requires 16 heat sinks the third requires 10 heat sinks, this uses 26 heat sinks for two left over, so you can run and fire your PPCs all day and be fine, but heaven help you if you fire that small laser...

So it's a lot more limiting that it first seems, requiring large numbers of "external" heat sinks to be useful, as such the most benefited are massed battery energy boats...

Code:

Another mech that benefits (slightly) from this is the supernova, it has 16 freezers to use, and under this rule ER large lasers only use 5 double heat sinks, so you got three lasers covered, leaving 22 left, if you run and fire two (extra) lasers your four over, so you can fire at a 5-4-5 pattern and have no issues regarding heat, other wise your limited to just 4-4-4 for no heat issues.

The Awesome 9Q also benefits now being able to fire all four PPCs with no issues (though the small laser will net you a single heat point if fired while running).


Tis a pity vehicles can't use this rule... What could you do with a Schrek with 4 extra tons...

Even if you do it from higher up you can probably make it look like you just set the sky on fire.

Testicular Fortitude check or shitstains.

The easy solution is to have another mech follow and use the weapon, Now you have a lance for heavy machinguns and missile launchers. Except mech sized.

And thus, battletech entered the modern age of warfare.

There is a big difference between carrying something as a load compared to carrying something you're actively using.
How much does a soldier carry in his pack compared to how big a weapon he can weild while moving around the battlefield hmm?

Now, I'd let a mech carry a gun that huge with it's hoist, BUT it would have to be the sort you would have to put down and get set up to fire Like the old WWI browning machine guns.

I could see someone using a quad mech as a tripod for a gun like that.
Guns need to be mounted on something to shoot them if plan on aiming them. A hoist is not going to be able to track tagets with any speed or accuracy.

Even if the rules did have an accidental loophole to let you do this nobody here or in a game is gonna let you violate the spirit of the rules by doing this.

Okay guys, here's a less absurdly cheesy version.

Code:

Gunman Basic

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Mixed
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Era Specific
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X
Production Year: 2750
Cost: 37,745,333 C-Bills
Battle Value: 3,196

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Composite
Power Plant: Unknown 400 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h (54.0 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h (86.4 km/h)
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 30 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Lamellor
Armament:
    1  (CL) Large Pulse Laser
    1  (CL) ER Large Laser
    1  (CL) ER Medium Laser
    2  (CL) Small Pulse Lasers
    1  ER Flamer
    1  Lift Hoist
    1  (CL) Laser Anti-Missile System
    1  Nova CEWS
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Composite               152 points                7.50
    Internal Locations: 2 LA, 1 RA, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Engine                    400                      26.50
    Walking MP: 4 (5)
    Running MP: 6 (8)
    Jumping MP: 1 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 RT                                               2.00
Heat Sinks:         (CL) Double Heat Sink        18(36)                    8.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT
Gyro:               Compact                                                6.00
Cockpit:            Torso-Mounted                                          4.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
    TSM Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Armor:              Ferro-Lamellor               AV - 307                 22.00
    Armor Locations: 1 LT, 5 LA, 6 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     31           47        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  15        
                                           L/R Torso     21           32        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  10        
                                             L/R Arm     17           34        
                                             L/R Leg     21           42        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(R) Lift Hoist                               RT        0         3         3.00
(R) ER Flamer                                RT        4         1         1.00
Nova CEWS                                    LT        2         1         1.50
(CL) Targeting Computer                      LT        -         3         3.00
(CL) Laser Anti-Missile System               CT        5         1         1.00
(T) (CL) ER Large Laser                      HD        12        1         4.00
(T) (CL) Large Pulse Laser                   HD        10        2         6.00
(T) (CL) ER Medium Laser                     HD        5         1         1.00
(CL) Small Pulse Laser                       RL        2         1         1.00
(CL) Small Pulse Laser                       LL        2         1         1.00
Mech Head Turret                             CT        -         1         1.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     12    Points: 32
4/1j       4       4       3       0      4     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: TSM, AMS, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

This one is made to use regular sized hand held weapons. Up to 20 tons. Should be pretty decent if you make it a dual-ATM12 launcher with ammo.

And on the topic of linked heat sinks:

Code:

Hellstar 6

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F
Production Year: 3079
Cost: 31,481,333 C-Bills
Battle Value: 3,080

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 400 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Lamellor
Armament:
    2  ER PPCs
    2  Large Pulse Lasers
    1  Nova CEWS
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   152 points                5.00
    Internal Locations: 1 LT, 6 RT
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             400                      26.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0 
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             24(48)                   14.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 2 LA, 3 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Ferro-Lamellor               AV - 307                 22.00
    Armor Locations: 1 CT, 5 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 1 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     31           47        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  15        
                                           L/R Torso     21           32        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  10        
                                             L/R Arm     17           34        
                                             L/R Leg     21           42        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6.00
ER PPC                                       RT        15        2         6.00
ER PPC                                       LT        15        2         6.00
Nova CEWS                                    HD        2         1         1.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     12    Points: 31
4          6       6       6       0      4     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

What do you guys think of this one? Reduce the mech's heat by 4 to account for the links.

Hmm... crew served weaponry scaled up to mech size? I like it, especially since it effectively requires the mech to immobilize itself (not a problem really with slow assaults that spend alot of time immobile anyway) in order to use its biggest, most powerful weapon. Think the Siege Tank from Starcraft, and how it has to take a moment to emplace and root itself before it can use its most powerful weapon.

But how much of the carried weapon's tonnage do you dedicate to a bipod/tripod/stand?

That's the lol part. 100 tons + TSM + 2xLift hoists means you can move 3/5 while carrying two hundred tons.

Have another mech follow right next to it and fire it while they move.

41 heat sinks? Good god, man! Hmm. Switch to doubles, that's 22 to fire everything at once, and link them up... You could fit a fifth PPC and the sinks.

Outside of light ammo-based mechs who the hell even uses singles anymore in the first place?

IS before freezers became common. Or poor people.

Not much outside of Primitives use Singles now.


I suppose those new Marian 'Mechs do.

Whoever can't manage the crit space. But the only time I can see that happening would be a lightish mech with Endo-Steel, FF, an XXL engine, and one massive ballistic weapon.

Which is pretty much what I'm saying. Light mechs are the ones that need ES, FF, and XXLs the most to have a competitive payload nowadays, and are usually the only ones that ever have a heat load within the range of ten free singles.
This brings me back to my earlier suggestion about JJs for lights weighing a quarter ton. DHS gave a HUGE advantage to anything using a 250 or better engine, more than ofsetting the price, but just makes most lights more fragile.

REAL LEATHER in the cockpit?

They are surely mad men

Hmm...

Hybrid structure with reinforced only in the head...

This is a great idea.