Arms Show Display Model of New Chinese "F-60" and UAV revealed

Link here.

The "F-60" apparently is a developmental rival to the J-20 than a projected, future design. The UAV frankly isn't something special as the Chinese have been displaying stealth UAV developments for years now (including models that promise to be far more advanced than this).

Also, inb4 inevitable F-22 ripoff accusations and debates with MJ12 (that means, don't bother).

EDIT: and that means I don't want any off-topic discussion and flaming in this thread.

That's cool.

You have to admit though it looks like an F-22 with a Flanker tail.

It does probably cause China probably has spies in all of our defense industries and they hack and steal all of our secrets.

...Why do i got a feeling i have seen those before...

See this is exactly what I was talking about...

Well its the truth man.

The YF-23 is totally a F-22 ripoff.

The reason why 5th generation fighters look so similar is because of the requirements behind Stealth technology. The F-117 was extremely primitive compared to modern Stealth.

The F-117 could be considered generation 1 Stealth. The B-2 was Generation 2. The F-22 represented Generation 3. Highly specific computer designs with specific reflected angles. Generation 3 will all look similar.

Wasn't the YF-23 better than the F-22 in some ways?

I heard the conspiracy angle from a dude. It was insane.

Isn't there a difference between making a model of something and actually building a working version of it?

The UAV one reminds me of the X-45A and the Corax/Taranis.

That must be one of the dumbest questions to haunt SB.

It wasn't really a question. It was me pointing out without trying to sound insulting to the Chinese population of this site. That China's track record for building things to quality as opposed to conceptualizing them. Is woefully poor, so we may as well just ignore this. Since it is just as likely to explode if they actually try to build full version of them.

Actually, I'd say it looks a lot more like a F-35, with the wing shape and intakes. Disturbingly close even.

Even with the fact that Gen 5 fighters are built on mostly the same lines, there is 'close' and 'what the fuck, that looks like an F-35 with two engines and raptor tails'. Which this is.

Yes, this is when the last time China and America worked on a defense project, the Chinese part of the duo went "fuck you guys we're taking our shit and going home" because it was America that didn't deliver a product of the required quality on time and on budget. The state of the Chinese defense industry is that it's infinitely more realistic on what it can accomplish and when than the American one. And in many areas it's not that far behind.

IIRC the primary problem it has had for a while is engine metallurgy, and it's gotten a lot better at it in the past few years, which is why you're seeing so many projects suddenly pop up involving next-gen fighters. They think they've either cracked the problem or are extremely close. Letting America pioneer the developments instead of throwing money at it themselves probably helped a lot.

But hey, just like in that other thread let's be racist instead of actually bothering to understand the facts.

More stealthy, faster, larger missile bay.

Basically better in the ways that matter.*

*Not sure about reliability or cost. Probably similar.

I wonder how good Chinese (and Russian for that matter) RAM is.

I can't find the exact quote but actually it was even funnier than that. The Chinese accused the Americans of deliberately trying to gouge them on the contract because it went highly overbudget, and refused to believe this was a usual occurrence in American defence projects.

As far as I know they've basically solved this problem at least enough to build 4th generation aircraft engines. I believe they can't quite make 5th generation engines yet, but they've gone from not being able to make 4th generation ones to being able to in around 5 years. So by the time the J-20 is due to roll out in 2020 they'll no doubt have proper ones.

But is the quality on those 4G engines equivalent to western-built ones? I've heard that they still can't equal the quality of Russian engines and those aren't built to the same standards as Western engines either.

Looking at the first pic I'm thinking more likely an F-35 clone that is using two engines to make up for using 4G engines than F-22 clone.

The F-32 would have looked quite different


Looks like the tail would have not been a traditional nozzle of the F-35 as well.

They can now equal the quality of the engines on the Su-30 IIRC, but not the more advanced Russian and Western built ones like the ones on the F-22.

They'll soon be able to match the F-22's engines.
They've gone from 1950's to 1990's level quickly enough.
With the increasing availability computers in China, their pace of advancement has increased even more.

The 22 was supposed to be cheaper, more upgradable, and it was more maneuverable. The wiki page also says the YF-23 could hold 4 AIM-120 and 2 AIM-9, the F-22 holds 6 and 2 respectively. The F-22 has also become faster than the YF-22, much closer to the YF-23, but has lost a lot of combat range.

Yes it isn't like one of there last big showings was a clip from top gun that they hoped nobody would notice or anything.

Um you can't really call anything there working on next gen if there 1-2 generations behind Ameirca.

The fact's are china's quality control and safety standards suck. If your not willing to accept that you know nothing about the country.

Wow, is this really your proof that the Chinese defense industry sucks? Really?

They're 1 generation behind America, which has a next-gen fighter by virtue of throwing more money than the entire Chinese defense budget at it. They are, most notably, not behind the rest of the first world which doesn't see air combat dickwaving as important. So yes, I can call what they're working on 'next gen', because it's not that China's behind, it's that you can make things ahead of your time if you're willing to throw endless piles of money at it.

Look at Nazi Germany, or for a more recent example, America.

Actually, the exact opposite is the case. Because, as the Industrial Revolution-era West showed, it is perfectly possible to produce first-rate military equipment while having lax quality control standards in other areas. In fact, this is fairly normal for a rapidly growing developing nation. The thing is, the companies making milk and candy are not the ones supplying the PRC with fighter jets, and they are necessarily dealt with by local governments which are corrupt or indifferent as all hell.

You know who the companies who build this stuff answer to? Beijing, which is less corrupt than local government and who many people think is less corrupt than the American government. In China, you really don't get bullshit past the central government, you go grease local government wheels and hope Beijing doesn't notice, because if they do, they can and will come down on you like a ton of bricks, burn your house, and shoot your dog. In fact, most of the time, they're actually state-owned, or state-owned in all but name. Basic economic sense says you don't try to fuck people in the ass who have more power than you, and all that 'lax quality control' is because it makes good economic sense when you can get away with it.

You know nothing about China, nothing about history, and are deigning to lecture someone who has visited there pretty much biannually and lived there for years, who is competent in the Chinese language. You're funny.