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Chinese prisoners forced to play WoW!!!

Discussion in 'Non Sci-fi Debates' started by Khaos, May 26, 2011.

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  1. Bitch about it? Sure, it's talk and happens all the time.

    Let me know the next time a native writes and publishes an article critical of the government and naming names without a "visit".

    Yeah, good luck with that.
  2. ttestagr

    ttestagr Joy

    You'd be targeted by McCarthyism in a heartbeat you Red Sympathizer.

    Also, bigoted much? You need to be Chinese or have a degree to even speak about the country? I look at an article like this, a guard who is decent enough to report corruption is arrested for it, the country is a dirty shithole.

    Who cares if they're our biggest most important trading partner. I could stick my dick into a diseased vagina everyday because its easy ass, but it doesn't make me a good person or a smart one. Just one who has been easily gratified.
  3. Plasmafish

    Plasmafish 屙尿唱山歌

    How critical do you want?

    Criticism of CCP economic policies? [✓]
    Criticism of police brutality? [✓]
    Criticism of corrupt government officials? [✓]
    A denunciation of Mao and his legacy? [✓] (but boy oh boy did this outrage the mao-lovers).

    Here's my question: How many China-baiters on this thread has ever read a Chinese newspaper?

    Correct answer: zero, including you if your post is an indication.

    Actual censorship in China is very erratic. Sometimes it bans trivial pointless things and sometimes it comes down hard. It also varies across the country and it varies depending on how antsy the CCP is feeling. With the "Arab Spring" on going, it's on harder than usual. The key thing why censorship is broadly tolerated in China is because it usually operates with a very light touch. It's more like Aldous Huxley's Brave New World than Orwell's 1984. Getting a "visit" from the government is a rare and uncommon honour. 南方都市报 (http://www.danwei.org/media_guide/newspapers/south_metropolis_daily.php) got that honour getting into frequent trouble with the censors, as did Caijing which is China's premier business news magazine. 南方日报 is actually the official Guangdong Communist Party newspaper but that hasn't stop them from criticizing government policies.

    But all that is academic because nobody really cares about that. What they care about is the cause célèbre du jour media whores like Liu Xiaobo and Ai Weiwei. It's nothing more than an opportunity to exert themselves in some satisfying moral outrage at no cost to themselves. Because by pointing at the sins of others you can absolve yourself of your own.
  4. MJ12 Commando

    MJ12 Commando Solidarity

    If I applied your standards of "the country is a dirty shithole" (i.e. people who speak out about corruption are silenced) to America and Britain, both of them would be dirty shitholes. The reason a moratorium on anyone without Chinese heritage or a degree related to China is necessary is because in general everyone else is both incredibly ignorant about it and completely unwilling to learn anything about the way China works so they just keep spouting ignorance.

    Being an ignorant asshole who never backs up your claims is a bannable offense. "People who do not understand China but talk about it anyways" are by and large, ignorant assholes on this very topic. So even just using the SB rules, there honestly should be a moratorium on most SBers talking about China.

    Intelligent people care. The people who recognize that political freedom and economic prosperity are halves of a whole should care. The people who recognize that out of the potential sources of cheap labor that exist China is probably the best one in terms of human rights, both political and economic, should care. Going around lapping up anti-Chinese propaganda endlessly isn't going to change any of these facts.

    Oh wow it happens all the time.


    FYI, Chinadaily is full of articles critical about governmental policies or making suggestions that they should be "better". Just because they're not impolite about the issue doesn't mean they aren't talking about the fucking issue. The fact that I needed thirty seconds on Chinadaily to find something shows just why a moratorium needs to be placed on people without degrees or Chinese ancestry.

    Or the whole "tainted foods" scandal. Remember that? There was a whole shitload of criticism going around towards the Chinese government and heads rolled. Yes people publish articles critical about China and criticize the government all the time. They just don't go "THE PRC IS WORSE THAN HITLER" in those editorials because insulting the government is a no-go.
  5. Plasmafish

    Plasmafish 屙尿唱山歌

    Chinadaily? Bad example. That's a bona fide propaganda outlet much like the BBC World Service, Russia Today, Voice of America and France 24.
  6. MJ12 Commando

    MJ12 Commando Solidarity

    The problem is chances are anyone who demands that would 1. Demand links as evidence, and 2. Cannot read Chinese. The other reason I used it was because well, chances are said person wouldn't be able to tell anyways. (and a propaganda outlet would likely, in fact, have just as strict 'censorship' as a non-propaganda outlet)

    I mean I could waste time finding one, but what's the point if the other party couldn't read it? I could shove off an article on sports in China and say it's critical of the PRC. :p
  7. Fallen Angel

    Fallen Angel Jaded Misanthrope

    >BBC World Service

  8. Plasmafish

    Plasmafish 屙尿唱山歌

    Who pays for the BBC World Service? Who is it targeted at? Who is the BBC Arabic radio targeted at? Do you think the ordinary license-fee-paying British public wants to listen to BBC Arabic radio?

    It's a textbook example of a state owned propaganda organ. All the ones I mentioned in that post are propaganda outlets (and add Al-Jazeera English to the list). I don't mean that they are evuh lie machines. I do mean that it's their job to propagate a certain point of view.
  9. Plasmafish

    Plasmafish 屙尿唱山歌

    That's their frakking problem. This debate is on an inherently unequal basis. We have access to another 477 million PoV by the miracle of being literate in Chinese and they don't. They can bitch about the Great Firewall denying the average Chinese their datums of freedom while ignoring how their own Firewall-of-Illiteracy prevents them picking up a Chinese newspaper and getting a basic reality check.
  10. EmperorSolo

    EmperorSolo Bolshevik-Leninism

    You mean the Reds sanction state sponsored criticism to in order to bring to the surface dissidents? It's not like the Chicoms have ever done that before...
  11. Fallen Angel

    Fallen Angel Jaded Misanthrope

    It's sad, but personally I'd totally agree.

    Shutup you attackdog. Stop bringing up points.
  12. EmperorSolo

    EmperorSolo Bolshevik-Leninism

    You mean the Hundred Flowers Campaign of 1957 which existed only to allow Mao to crush internal opponents within the CCP by using state sponsored criticism as rouse, never happened?

  13. Plasmafish

    Plasmafish 屙尿唱山歌

    Did you even read your own link?

  14. EmperorSolo

    EmperorSolo Bolshevik-Leninism

    I did.

  15. Plasmafish

    Plasmafish 屙尿唱山歌

    >Clive James
    His expertise on China is based on what exactly?

    >Jung Chang
    A woman who has made a career out of dehumanizing Chinese people as brainwashed robots. I'm sure she is very popular with your ilk.
  16. I feel that everytime someone makes a thread about China, they should read this post from the JREF Forums by a Canadian who spent a significant portion of his life there.

    Links: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72780

    The China that is ingrained in the minds of the Western World =/= the China that exists in 2011.
  17. ^Good post, it pretty much matches my opinion even if there are a few areas where I would have phrased it differently.
  18. Lokar

    Lokar Trust me! I'm a lawyer!

    I laughed. Gold mining is serious business yo.

    And MJ is right. The PETA idiot always go off about "if you simps only knew how that meat gets to your table." That stuff pales next to misery involved that allows for the completly unsistainable existence we call modern Western civilization.
  19. Frankly, the largest problem in China is not human rights, it's an important issue, but what's more important is the living standards of the poorest half (3/4) of the country.
  20. Samuel

    Samuel Loyalist

    And human rights aren't incompatible with economic growth. You can argue that democracy is detrimental (because workers reduce investment and increase consumption), but countries are able to deal with more than one problem at the same time. While China is improving, I still don't see how imprisioning people who complain about the government is something that is supremely difficult to fix.

    On subject, the man seems to have served a three year term and then been released from prison.

    That is surprisingly unevil- more dickish. How are the reeducation camps run, because it sounds suspisiously like the person incharge gets evaluated based on their revenue.

    The slow progress in the US was because the population of the US was bigoted beyond belief. That is not remotely relevent to China for the subject of human rights.

    China's per capita GDP is about equivalent to the richest nations of Europe in 1900.

    We have that in the US- they are called "law and order" types. I'm pretty sure they are actually the majority given the ease the government convinced people to back torture.

    Is there any proof this is due to Chinese culture and not police funding? The more you spend, the less innocent people you lock away increasing the deterence from getting the right guy. However, if you don't have the money, you have to be lower the evidence threshold in order to convict people.

    The US had universal education and a large number of female only colleges.

    Democratic states have managed to make long term plans. Europe during its golden age from 1950-1970 managed to get labor and capital to work together so that consumption was decreased in favor of long term investment.

    Hell, if you are really worried about long term planning, just make ridiculously long terms for your democratic government. If people are in Congress for a decade you can hold them responsible for what they have done.
  21. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Humanity+

    MJ Commando and JC Interrupted. Do I sense familiarity?
  22. Xort

    Xort Mahō Shōjo

    Are the Chinese the fucking Orks with genetic memory!?
  23. ttestagr

    ttestagr Joy

    Hmph. The argument seems to be that China was a worse shithole twenty years ago, but they are improving so you shouldn't criticize them for the shit they do now since they don't do as much of it.
  24. yingyang590

    yingyang590 East of erie, North of normal and West of weird

    And lets not forget that they are doing less and less of it as time goes by.

    The Chinese government is not composed of die hard ideologues who are desperate to keep their grip on power. By and large they are technocrats who were selected based on their past performance and capabilities. Hu Jin Tao is a hardliner who was governor of Tibet during the crackdowns in the early 90's but his back ground is the son of an accused dissident during the cultural revolution.

    These people understand that the current situation is undesirable and view it as their biggest challenge during these nest few decades. The biggest problem in China now days is not iron fisted leaders censoring the internet and disappearing dissidents, but how to change and reform an out of control bureaucracy that views petty corruption as part of the job.

    With over 90 million party members or roughly 9% of the population, the average Chinese citizen has a greater voice in their government then most westerners realize.
  25. ttestagr

    ttestagr Joy

    The fact is though, that bad shit in China should still be criticized in the hope that it changes for the better. It is the same everywhere else. If shit happens in the United States, I want to here about it so I can criticize and complain and insult my countrymen.

    For example, the police rapists being acquitted in NYC this week despite the defense being utterly retarded.
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