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Death Star (either one) Vs ST Doomsday Machine

Discussion in 'Vs. Debates' started by Alland, Jun 4, 2004.

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  1. When watching reruns of the original "Star Trek" series on the Sci Fi Channel this week, I came across the episode "The Doomsday Machine". If you'll recall, this was a miles-long cylindrical robot craft with a wide-open mouth that could swallow a dozen Enterprises or more, and which fired an energy beam that could slice planets to pieces. Afterwards, it "ate" the debris from those planets to refuel itself, making it a self-sustaining ultimate weapon designed by some now-extinct alien race to travel around the universe, wiping out entire solar systems and galaxies. Its body was totally invulnerable to ray attack, or at least the phasers the Federation uses. How do you think it would fare against one of the Death Stars from the "Star Wars" movies? For those of you who generally malign "Star Trek" technology, remember that this thing wasn't built by the Federation or any of its enemies or allies, but by an unknown and incredibly advanced alien race.
     
  2. 404

    404 Let's make a deal...

    Doomsday fired it's anti-proton beam at the Death Star while the Death Star isn't even in range for it's weapon...Death Star destroyed.

    Also it takes a long time for the Death Star to charge up its weapon, not so much for the Doomsday Machine.
     
  3. deathstar drops out of hyperspace pointblank with a fully charged superlaser, bye bye doomsday machine
     
  4. Jupiter

    Jupiter Haruka's ancestor


    I don't think so the Doomsday machine's hull was made out of pure nutroium
     
  5. 404

    404 Let's make a deal...

    #1) How would the Death Star know that the Doomsday machine is there?
    #2) It would take some time for the Death Star to be perfectly alligned for a shot
    #3) As if a species that advanced wouldn't have detectors for hyperspace
    #4) The Doomsday Machine is made purely 100% out of some metal (don't know the name) that is capable of reflecting laser and energy weapons hits.
     
  6. Jupiter

    Jupiter Haruka's ancestor

    MAGIC!!!!
    how else do you think :p



    well since SW hyperspace dosen't exist in ST its a very safe bet to say no they don't


    look up at my privous post
     
  7. PeaceKeeper_Cmdr

    PeaceKeeper_Cmdr Pimping for Justice

    Cracking a shell of neutronium is, i think, a rather more difficult task than doing so to a planet.

    HOWEVER, the Doomesday weapon does have that rather glaring weakness to internal explosions. It's not impossible the DS crew could figure that out and load up a shuttle with all the explosives they can fit inside it. It only has to be about 100 MT.
     
  8. While it might not be canon, they did a book called "Vendeta" it turned out that doomsday machine was just a proof of concept model. The race in question actually built a production unit.

    As far as the question goes, If the DS manages to figure out that the thing isn't too discriminating about what it eats then the shuttle loaded with a proton toropedo or concusion missle works.

    The production unit has a living commander though, so would be harder to trick that way.
     
  9. VietHNgo

    VietHNgo Soldier of the Empire

    Impossible to say, really; since sci-fi neutronium is completely, totally and absolutely dissimilar from real-life neutronium, there's no way to quantify its abilities.
     
  10. PeaceKeeper_Cmdr

    PeaceKeeper_Cmdr Pimping for Justice

    True. A plate of real neutronium would require no energy input at all to destabilize. :D

    All we know is that the E-nil, which is quite capable of BDZing a world on its own, couldn't put a scratch on it. This is far, far less than the superlaser on the DS, of course. Also, the E-nil was able to survive a direct strike with planet slicer beam, so its also unlikely that the beam would seriously harm a post-ICS Death Star.
     
  11. VietHNgo

    VietHNgo Soldier of the Empire

    Since when can any Trek ship pull off a BDZ?
     
  12. PeaceKeeper_Cmdr

    PeaceKeeper_Cmdr Pimping for Justice

    The E-nil could "kill every living on the surface" in a single maximum power phaser strike. ;) The whole scene is really a Trek debater's wetdream. :D
     
  13. It wasn't a ship it was a bomb, and it might not quite qualify as a BDZ, but I wouldn't want to try living on that planet that they killed that cloud critter on.
     
  14. What is the E-nil? I haven't seen that one.
     
  15. VietHNgo

    VietHNgo Soldier of the Empire

    A BDZ goes considerably beyond wiping out all life on a planet.
     
  16. PeaceKeeper_Cmdr

    PeaceKeeper_Cmdr Pimping for Justice

    I'm guess that ship that can with a SINGLE salvo end all life on the planet immediately (including an installation on the exact opposite side of the planet from the strike, which was the target) is going to be able to do all the things traditionally (but not canonically i might add, there is no definitive description of the effects of a BDZ) attributed to a BDZ.

    EDIT: Also, the planned strike was to be done thru a planetary shield.
     
  17. areoborg

    areoborg Would you like to make a contract? Moderator

    Then again, the E-Nil survived multiple blasts that were 10x more powerful than the DS's superlaser without much trouble. :)
     
  18. areoborg

    areoborg Would you like to make a contract? Moderator

    The Enterprise from The Original Series. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, ect.
     
  19. PeaceKeeper_Cmdr

    PeaceKeeper_Cmdr Pimping for Justice

    For the sake of my sanity, i try to stay away from the distruptor calcs.
     
  20. areoborg

    areoborg Would you like to make a contract? Moderator

    The way it went was that the E-nil needed to bring down the Planetary Shields in order to beam Kirk and co out of the mental hospital where they were being hostage. A direct attack on the shields was ruled out because the backwash of energy would kill everyone inside the facility, even if they punched the hole in the shields on the opposite side of the planet from the facility where the sheilds were weakest.
     
  21. PeaceKeeper_Cmdr

    PeaceKeeper_Cmdr Pimping for Justice

    I phrased it the way i did because i wasn't sure if the energy was supposed to come from the action of punching thru, or after the shield failed.

    I can almost recite the dialoge of the scene from memory, because its such a great moment of TOS uberness. :D
     
  22. To my recalection, the biggest attack that the TOS Enterprise survived was when Nomad swatted it. There was the Rom Plasma Wep from Balance of Terror, but it was at the end of it's run at that point. So which one of those was 10X Super Laser?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for down scaling SW weapons when ever possible. But I don't think I've seen anything in the series to suggest that level of durablility.
     
  23. PeaceKeeper_Cmdr

    PeaceKeeper_Cmdr Pimping for Justice

    If memory survives, that calc comes from the episode where the Ent is attacked by planetary distruptor batteries (from the planet with the simulated computer war). Scotty gives the output of the weapon in decibles, which is a measure of vibrational energy. The numbe he gave turns out to be ten times the calculated energy of the DS's superlaser.

    I avoid that one because of the obvious "WTF" in the fact that a weapon is being measured in decibles. SFC has a nice but completely non-canon explanation for this, which doesn't really help any.
     
  24. How can you have decibles in space? I thought you needed a medium to transmit vibration.
     
  25. PeaceKeeper_Cmdr

    PeaceKeeper_Cmdr Pimping for Justice

    And right there you've hit upon the main problem with the calcs. :D

    The SFC explanation is that's how disruptors work, by using subspace energy to induce vibrations in the target, vibrations which carry a substantal amount of energy. But that is entirely non-canon, so we are left kind of scratching our heads on that one.
     
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