Destroying the Dark: SB leads the Commonwealth in ME! (Thread XIV)

You guys are lucky that the roll during Protoss first contact didn't go bad like the Elites did.

A yes, lets send people they can clearly see are aliens, discounting what ever technology they have that could possibly detect our vessels as well as cultural costumes in the of chance that we can actually manipulate a race we dont know anything about. It has all the hallmarks of great success.

Like I said to Knight.

"You have the ability to transfer a digital mind to a bio-construct, perfect stealth ships and teleportation.

Heck, you could if you wanted to assassinate a high ranking official. Digitize their memories and replace him with your own clone that, looks like the target does, knows everything the target knows and acts exactly like the target does if you wanted to."

If it quacks like a duck, walk like a duck and looks like a duck. It is a duck

or you could just, you know, let the reapers kill them and make your jobs slightly easier

"Perfect stealth" is code for "a good way to start a war with them".

There are way, way, way too many ways your crazy scheme could go wrong, Vlad.

At this point, it's better for us to focus our resources on the Reapers.

Lost potential force as they will die really fast and possible indoctrinated to fight us.

The ships are just there for insertion/extraction. Even if they get spotted they can run or self-destruct to preserve secrecy and plausible deniability and if they are ready to go to war for this unless it goes massively bad, like the ship is captured they already planed to go to war with you from the get go and nothing will stop them.

As much as I said this over the board. Being cautious is good, but being so cautious to be basically paralyzed of failure is a disaster.

First, the transfering of a digital mind only works with a Nano-Cyberbrain, something that any scan can likely detect. Secondly we dont have teleportation. And sensors can detect our vessels, we dont know that sensors they have.

To digitise their memories we would to research the race for compatibility to our systems, we would need to have a base line for the memories of the subject, as in his life in general and some specific personal subjects (memory is not like a computer file system). We would need to research their DNA before we developed any type of Bio-Construct.

Frankly it looks like it could work at first glance, but it simply doest. We arent the Culture.

Thus says the dude in charge of XCOM.

You researched early on to transfer uploads back to organic brain. It worked and the people functioned normally, but uploading that brain again wasn't possible for whatever reason.

Get volunteers for the mission and you can do it.

Then work it from the ground up. Insert first skinjobs to gather samples from the basic population first to be able to create new infiltrators that would pass a medical scan. Including brain scan.

Who said you had to be? You can do it, you have the technology.

The Sangheli are roughly on par with Commonwealth tech; particulars of said tech I won't get into.

Luring the Reapers to their space could be a potential meat-grinder.

Yeah, but I am more worried that the Reapers won't go 'We are the Reapers. Prepare to be assimilated.' , but go 'We are the Reapers, we are at war with the entity you know as Commonwealth. Join us or stand aside.' while cranking indoctrination rays up to 11.

It is their basic MO, is it not?

That bug has been mostly worked out, but the most reliable version is the nano-cyberbrain one, but as always consequences of low roll simply arent worth the effort of trying. If we fail (and their likely will be negative modifiers) we will have another war front in our hands while facing against the reapers.

Ah, yes. Bypassing their fleets and likely defences and then getting them back. Not knowing the general cultural quirks and traits (like bowing when we should wave, walking in a specific manner), not knowing their language (knowing how to speak is different than having it translated), not knowing their general technology level and i am not even accounting for the differences in behaviour that should be apparent.

Hell just not having the right structure for the body will blow the cover wide open, if we get something wrong.

Not in terms of quality.

while it is possible that they will simply be stupid for stupidity's sake and serve the reapers (I'm looking at you When there was a Tomorrow!) but we don't know that, and intervening pre-emptively seems even more likely to provoke an attack by them

So you can reliably do it and the only problem you might have had is that the nano-cyberbrains might have been discovered in a scan, which you will obviously not use.

Tell me. How do the protos get around?

Also what does a technologically advanced civilization put out.

Seriously, you have NO excuse to not be able to inform yourself about their culture and civilization. Just warp in (protos warp) a invisible/cloaked probe with a QE transmitter to beam back what it picks up, then put the AI on crunching on the data and in a few days you will likely have more than enough info to train whoever you send to pass as a local.

And the need for a brain, thats obviously not like one an Elite would have. And everything else i have said.

Wormholes, not teleportation. Very different things.

Considering degradation of regular communications nothing beyond a few light-years will be usable, and thats without discounting differing technological principles, for examples we use heavily subspace communications that dont have that much a 'blue print' in the Universe, unless you know what to look for.

Again, we dont know what their sensors are, and how they work. Nor if they will detect any entries to their space. And considering they are fanatical and just want something as an excuse to enter a war, they will have a heavy sensor network. There are only three ways we have on faster than light. Warp, Mass Effect FTL and Gates. Two of those are likely easily detectable. The other likely is too, but needs a receiving gate to work.

Just forget it, its simply not worth it.

You and my definitions of cost/risk seem to differ. A lot.

Or at least how bad this can go does.

This kind of thing is done automatically, with anyone, everywhere. You would not find a world leader or general who would not do this. Knowing thy enemy is winning half the battle. Even if you don't actively try to influence them, sitting on you haunches goes against every military teaching that exists. Sun Tzu would slap you senseless for this kind of idiocy.

Second, even if you are discovered. What will they do about it? All they will find is completely unrecognizable scrap from a robotic probe. At most they get some reading of tech used by several other civs other than you and can plausibly deny.

Also space is mind numbingly big and protos wormholes are very accurate. Port into a asteroid field, moon or gas giant a single probe is in their capability. Warp portals also don't seem to be very noticeable as entire fleets can be called in before they are noticed. Dark Templars might also have even stealthier ways to move things.

Paranoia can be a killer too.

Edit: Are you guys still using a IRC I can get onto?

Protoss wormholes need a Gate in the other end. We dont have the capability to use them in the manor you wish we could.

Its one thing sensibly looking for knowledge using available means, its another just throwing stuff at the wall and hopping we get a result, nothing you proposed would work. We dont have the technology to do as you want in a manner that nullifies the risk of them going to war with us.

If we are discovered we will be facing a war on another front by our own fault when we could have easily avoided it.

Paranoia can be the killer but hope is the destroyer. In the sense just hopping something will work as we want doesn't mean it will. Especially when dice are the deciding factor.

Wait! Protos warp needs gates everytime, everywhere?

Did they shoot STL gates to get around? I think you misunderstood how Star Craft warp travel works...

Nop. They have regular Mass Effect FTL from i understand. Its just that their gates only work in that manner. As well as being instantaneous if only working one vessel at a time.

GM Ruled it as such in this game.

So no alternate dimension FTL?

Only real space stuff like Mass Effect FTL and Star Trek warp. Possibly the Elites could have slipspace drive, but most likely its Mass Effect FTL.

Meh, you should still be able to do it if cloaks work like they did in star trek as romulans and klingons could go at warp while cloaked and even follow other ships. Often very close to each other.

This might be even better as you can blame the romulans if something goes wrong.

Romulan ships, cloaked, were still detectable. You had to put effort into it, but it could be done.

I would imagine the Elites have a pretty hefty sensor net up; they seem pretty paranoid about that sort of thing.

So, again, not really viable.

Especially since it wouldn't be hard to find out we blew the romulans back to the 1950's tech-wise.


Look, it's nice that you're trying to find ways to get them involved, but between our rather up-and-down luck in general, and Vizzi's specific points, it doesn't seem workable. It's better to just leave them be.

Maybe, but I don't think doing nothing would avoid all consequences. Actually think it would make things worse.

If I was GM or if this was a real universe I would soooo have them be indoctrinated and joining the fight besides the Reapers from the get go.

Religious fanaticism + brainwashing robot apocalypse army + hating your guts, just the sound of it shows how good it works together.

Just saying, that's all....

Its likely going to happen, or at least be manipulated to such a thing, but the Elites are probably even more paranoid towards Indoctrination considering it looks like they have knowledge of the earlier war.