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Dies The Fire/"Emberverse" Series

Discussion in 'Space Battles' started by Rockhound, May 10, 2011.

  1. Stratigo The Uber Being

    A few of his books have... erm... let's say questionable groups in them, even on the protagonist side.

    But he's always played them straight I thought. And I usually enjoy his novels. The ending of the second emberverse trilogy just really struck me bad. Technology regression is something I REALLY hate, and any group that forces this on the earth (along with killing 90 percent of the population) just can in no way be good to me. And its irritating when they are portrayed as benevolent.
  2. Corp General of Seventh Gate

    Personally I'd like to see the Ranger leadership purged, then it can expand. ;) They annoy the historian in me.


    Do you have an example Stratigo? I haven't read all his books but those I have don't seem that bad.
  3. Stratigo The Uber Being

    Specifically i was thinking the novel "Conquistador" where an alternate dimension is discovered by a wealthy southern Virginian war veteran in the 1940s. He then uses questionable people to colonize it, gathering dispossess but skilled groups like former SS, Apartheid Afrikaaners, and such.

    EDIT: Not to say he portrays these people as any more pleasant then they really were. Like I said, he plays them straight.

    Also he wrote the Draka series. But I've not read those.
  4. Corp General of Seventh Gate

    Ah ok. Never read that series, didn't strike my interest. Guess I'm not really missing much.
  5. Stratigo The Uber Being

    It's just a one off book, and its pretty interesting.
  6. Shepard1707 This'll be fun.

    As much as the Rangers leadership can be annoying at times, I'm not sure they'd actually be the Rangers if you removed that core inspiration for them. Take a look at Mary and Ritva, for example. They are decidedly less insane than their aunt, and between them probably more skilled than Astrid all around. However, if you plopped them somewhere minus the original rangers and told them to build them back up, I can tell you that they'd fail.

    Madness like Astrids inspires people to follow along with it, particularly when it makes sense. And in Astrid's case, it does make sense.

    her whole life was built on fantasies of battling evil warlords, slaying man eating monsters, and killing bandits. And guess what, that's just the sort of world she lives in now. "If it be madness, 'tis a practical insanity, to be sure."
  7. Er..
    I did?

    I think maybe I contributed to a discussion about magic in DtF, something like is being discussed by Shephard. I'll have to look.

    Why is there such a hate on for the Powers Rudi met in book 6? They don't say that THEY removed high tech, just that it was done.

    I took away from it that the power behind Ted Kaczynski/CUT
    (boy did I laugh when I realized just who CUT's leader was) is evil, godlike, and responsible for the Fire being gone. The Old Woman and Maiden knew what happened and generally oppose this other power.

    Sure, in general the PTB seem to be uncaring assholes to a mortal perspective, but the Old Woman and Maiden seem to care for humankind as a whole.

    Since Nantucket was ISOT'd and we know there are a few passenger pigeons on the island, will pigeons become carriers of news? Any guesses?

    Why was there such a rapid movement away from compound bows and modern material crossbows? I know why from a writing perspective-it's not good for drama to have the Big Evil assassinated from long distance.

    Everyone yacks about 'they don't last that long, things break' but that doesn't make sense. Stores and warehouses would have years of supplies and composite materials don't break down THAT easily. Especially those not under load. If my life relied on it, I'd have several replacement bows. strings, and pulleys-enough to last my lifetime anyway.

    Or as long as I needed to realize just HOW bad the Protector is. I'd be dead but then so would he.

    Unless such a person took the long view-A king can be a bastard but is generally considered a good king if he leaves behind a stable kingdom. Which the Protector DID do.
  8. Rockhound Woodchipper beats everything.

    I'd like to see a breakdown of the weapons & armor used by the various groups. We got a look at the proto stage, during the first book...but the descriptions after the first timeskip are too scattered to get a good picture (other than the Protectorate, of course).

    Do the Rangers use plate, or just maille and brigandine? Oakeshott Type X's or XII's? Etc.

    The first book (AIUI) had the Bearkillers using a backsword (because Pamela is trained in that form)...but that doesn't work for the heavy cavalry setup that the A-List seems to have gravitated towards...
  9. Rockhound Woodchipper beats everything.

    Having just watched the latest episode of Game of Thrones, I'm struck by how good an Emberverse miniseries would be.

    Losing the interior monologues would attrit the more annoying traits of some of the protagonists, and the story is otherwise both very cinematic and requires little in the way of huge purpose-built physical sets.
  10. Ironanvil1 Looking for Dinsdale

  11. Corp General of Seventh Gate

    I'm sure they'd be able to do that without claiming that ficition is actual historical fact. Keep the whole inspiration but changing history to suit ones own twisted worldview like Astrid did is dangerous, doublely so when the new generations are more willing to accept it than actual history.


    So I haven't read the new book yet but are they now going through Canada? Be interesting to see how those Dominions developed. Given the starting population and the size of the territory they shouldn't have been affected by the Change as badly as everywhere else. By now they should all be rather strong with populations in the millions.
  12. Shepard1707 This'll be fun.

    The line between fiction and fact is already getting blurred, as it's want to do in a world where books with any historical accuracy become a rarity. True, the printing press might be common in places like, Corvalis or Mount Angel, but they won't have the plates for the original books, so they'll have to make new ones, and those won't be as accurate. A place like Sutterdown or Larsdallen probably won't even bother maintaining those books, rather using their presses for things like newspapers, and other tools to keep local, current knowledge as up to date as it can.

    Further confusing the matter is that, already, figures of legend and historical figures are being blurred. One of the main characters I believe said that people were already confusing James Kirk and Niel Armstrong, etc. It wouldn't be long before some historical figures fell into legend (I'd love to see what would be made of Roosevelt) and until fictional characters started joining them there! The picture of the world just before the change might be a very interesting one, an amalgam of various fictional and real histories mixing together as people remember best what interested them, or what stood out most.

    Another matter is how legends work. Legends are perhaps the best way for stories or history to actually survive the test of time, as they persist for ages after they are first conceived. Even more conveniently, they do occasionally (often, in fact, as we are finding now) carry some basis in real history. Already, the Bearkillers have their own legend, and the Epic of Mike Havel will be a long and storied one indeed. But there's a slight problem with legends, and that's that they have to be somehow relatable to the people who are hearing them. In medieval times, the Greek soldiers at Troy wore chainmail, or platemail still later. Same with Arthur and his knights. Only with the steady increase of literate people did we start to shift things back to original model (And even then, not exactly entirely).

    So the question then becomes "Which 'history' is more important, more prevalent, to that of the people living in the world after the change?" The one with things like 'guns' and 'trains' and flying machines, people reaching out to the stars and settling them (because I'm certain that that will somehow make it's way into the confused remembrance of post-change earth it's too common a notion.), weapons that could level whole kingdoms, and wars that could devastate the world. Or, one in which heroes battle evil warlords, where magic exists, and man eating monsters. (More importantly to note, the CUT exists and is pretty damn evil, magic does exist post-change earth, and Eaters still run around preying on anyone unlucky enough to not be able to take them on).

    Yes, the old history of the world will be an interesting read after it's made a fable, but it still won't be as popular an idea as stories like The Lord of the Rings or so. And, yes, while this 'fableization' can be slowed, and Astrid is certainly doing the opposite of slowing it, I have to wonder if it's something that really should be slowed.



    Anyway.

    My thoughts on what an ROB's magic system might be like. The idea I'm thinking of is something subtle, but still noticeable when it needs to be. There wouldn't be anything like Magic Missile, right. But you could heat a pebble, and then enchant it with accuracy and throw it at someone to hurt them (or, y'know, just do that with an arrow). You couldn't instantly heal someone of all wounds, but you could speed their healing greatly and ensure that it all heals right. You couldn't spring lighting from your finger tips, but you could call it from the sky if there's a lighting storm (Which you could conjure up yourself, given enough time). You couldn't cast fireball but you could make an inferno from a spark (and vice versa). That make sense?

    Not sure how I'd handle it beyond Good Roleplaying Stat, though.
  13. Rockhound Woodchipper beats everything.

    Emperor Roosevelt II, sending his Dux Bellorum, Dwight of Eisen, across the Atlantic Oceansea, on a Crusade to rescue the Old World from the Nazi (Third) Empire (who, by this time, are essentially the Corwinites with swastikas)?
  14. Rockhound Woodchipper beats everything.

    So far, with the exception of the Sword, there have been no effects that exist outside the human Central Nervous System (hallucinations, seizures, visions, possessions, etc). Nothing physical (save as a knock-on from interference with the CNS).
  15. Shepard1707 This'll be fun.

    True, but that's not as entertaining :p

    And there was the time that a dead man literally got up and started walking around, that had to take more than just an effect on the brain.
  16. Rockhound Woodchipper beats everything.

    Zombie rule. If the brain is intact...."braaaiiinnss!".
  17. kjyl I'M A SHARK

    Yeah, my biggest problem with the story, aside from the lesbian commandos/improbable action girls* is the " We love kings" thing. As an American I pretty much have "Fuck Royalty" stamped on my genetic code.

    Well that and the whole "SCA conquers the world thing". I am in the SCA, and they could not conquer a unguarded out house.



    * It is not that they are women fighters, I know several that are pretty damn good, but you can tell by how they look that they are fighters and have the build for it. The thing about the lesbians is that it seems to run a little to close to fetish for me. Where are the ugly lesbians? or even one that is not death on two legs. Hell even making the character a gay man would have been a lot more interesting, as he had already done the super lesbian warrior badass in the nantucket series.
  18. Shepard1707 This'll be fun.

    There's only two lesbian main characters, and it's pretty well pointed out that the more femme one isn't any better a fighter than a body guard would normally be, and that the more 'butch' one is by far the better fighter (and I think it's mentioned somewhere that she'd easily be mistaken for a man).

    As for Astrid... hmm... her being so good spawns alot from her crazy. I know a guy like her IRL, he's pretty much Astrid light, and he's a beast with a sword. He can actually dual wield even lengthed blades with skill, which is very difficult to do. It's astounding what a good amount of fanaticism can do for someone.

    With Elir, yeah, I always did find it a bit of a stretch, but decided to chaulk it up to MST3K mantra, because, y'know, it is a story, there are going to be more than a few parts that are rather contrived.

    And the SCA thing is rather limited, if I'm remembering right. Many of them have useful skillsets, true, but that usually lands them only advisor positions. It's either rutheless bastards who have studied how kingdoms worked for years and years (Arminger), ex-military badasses who gather the right people around them (too many to count, but Havel being a good example), temporary, emergency governents (also too many to count), or gang leaders (again, too many to count). The only real sore thumb is the Mackenzies, and origin wise theirs is the most organic one of all, aside from the whole "They're witches" part, which honestly is just luck of the draw.
  19. Another bit that annoys me is apparently the MacKenzies are all "witches" ha ha no. Even back during the days of the druids the "witch" or druid was an extremely unique person and most people would either get pitch forks, run, or give offerings to anyone who called themselves that.

    Also whenever someone tries to talk Christianity to them they are all apparently expert theologian and throw it right back at them THE F**K!

    And the minister that was opposed to the "witch" thing he wasn't the only one to die like that. The farmer who owned the farm that became Suttersdown or whatever he stayed to the Christian faith while his wife and kids wanted to go "witch"

    He was one of the other few casualties besides the minister to die in that battle CONVENIENT DON'T YOU THINK!!!!!?????
  20. Shepard1707 This'll be fun.

    You do realize that that's probably the least contrived part of all of it, right? They aren't classical witches. There aren't any classical witches. They're neo-pagan witches. Neo-paganism is not old paganism, for a wide variety of reasons, least of wich being the separation between worshiper and clerical figure. The main reason for this is because most neo-pagan cults aren't big enough to have a separation, so they have no system in place for it. This is, infact, explicitly pointed out several times by Juniper.

    Far as I know, the only people we see get into those debates are either Juniper Mackenzie, her children, original members of the coven, or people who're pretty high in the Mackenzie religious hierarchy. Or, in other words, people who would have been taught at the very least a little bit of theology.

    Yes, it is convenient. It's one of those contrived coincidences that combines the story and builds the world that we're reading about. Quite honestly, if we didn't have such coincidences as that showing up, we'd probably wind up with nothing but despotic assholes running things all over the place for the next 100 years in universe.
  21. kjyl I'M A SHARK

    Sorry are you talking about the Black,lesbian,samuri, Coast guard captian or the Gymnist,lesbian,ninja, Knight?

    The B.L.S.C is mistaken for a man by the leader of the Evil tribe in England, because she has short hair and won a fight. This is some what of a WTF for the moderns.

    I know several florintine or case fighters, and all of the decent ones are strong to the point where it is pretty damn noticeable. At a one on one level big and strong beats small and fast 9 times of 10, and god help you if you meet big, strong, and fast.

    It is more the pattern then just the one character.
  22. -- it's a low-probability accident, but they happen. John Paul Jones ended up as a naval commander working for the Czar in the Black Sea for a while, for example.
  23. -- yup, the quasi-famous author.
  24. Ironanvil1 Looking for Dinsdale

    The world hadn't just ended when he got that job.

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