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Game Theory (Nanoha fanfic)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Aleph, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. So?

    I gather that magical children have the possibility to develop faster than their *normal* couterparts, otherwise Chrono would not have been put in a command position at 12, Yuuno wouldn't have been living alone and going on mission of his own... So holding these "children" responsible under the law isn't as far fetched as it seems.

    Even then, there were probably quite a lot of extenuating circumstances taken into account, how many terrorists having actively participated to attack are only sentenced to 8 years of prison? Especially when the said prison consists in living with their mother in the countryside?
  2. EarthScorpion Fell on His Sword

    See, you say that, but let's actually look at what Cinque is guilty of. One case of murder of a serving TSAB officer (Zest), and involvement in the murder of another one (Quint), the grievous wounding of a third (Megane) and the kidnap of her young daughter. Multiple cases of terrorism and conspiracy. Widespread infrastructural damage. The kidnap, brainwashing and reprogramming of a serving TSAB officer (Ginga), using her for acts of terrorism.

    That alone, even before we get into details of other things she might have done, is enough for a life sentence. She's getting off light by it being commuted to service.

    Yes, I understand that she's all "iconic character design" and "throws exploding knives". But that doesn't change that she's done some pretty criminal things.
  3. SolipsistSerpen Solipsist Serpent

    After rearranging your emphasis to make my point for me, I'll point out it's unlikely Nanoha, or even Fate, are going to end up murdering anyone and if they do, apparently they will not be in prison but serving in the same military they'd end up serving in anyway. It's good to know where even the TSAB starts having problems forgiving, but even there they're nicer than just about any real government. And, again, it turns out to actually profit them.

    Telling someone that a little girl NEEDS them to steal these or she'll die is suddenly less manipulative than telling them to just do them for their mother, now? That's an odd stance to take. Oh, sure, the words might be true, but that just makes it more effective, not less manipulative.
    For that matter, I suddenly find myself wondering what Nanoha's legal status would be if she confined her activities to Earth, a planet the TSAB doesn't actually have authority over and she's native to, unlike every other MGLN villain we've seen, who have all committed crimes off planet or are from their worlds or both.

    Well, I'll agree there. But apparently as long as they don't murder anyone it's fine. And considering some of the things higher ups in the TSAB are interested in, if Precia succeeds she may have a lot of leverage to bargain with.

    Ah. Well I can help there. Ever heard that old saying "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"? As it seems to apply to this fanfic, the relevant part of game theory would be the one that says in many interactions with other people the best plan for you is also the one that's best for other people. Or, to put it another way, fair means are better than foul, as long as a fair means to get what you want exists. That things like honor and kindness that encourage everyone to work together instead of divisive strategies are just plain better for you in the long-run and should be sacrificed as a last resort (but last resort and never are different).

    If killing Nanoha in her bed would get Alicia back, she'd probably do it. But it seems that mostly doing so would just alert the TSAB and make her a lot of enemies if she gets caught, so it's better to just have Fate tell her the truth.
    For that matter, there are plenty of other options, even if that fails. Just as an example, could you steal Rising Heart? It's intelligent, so maybe not, but theft of a Device is probably far less likely to get you locked away.

    Certainly true. Of course, since this purports to be a divergence AU based around one character acting differently, I'm going to be pretty annoyed if it turns out that the universe they are doing so in doesn't actually resemble canon and thus defeats the basic premise.

    But we're nowhere near seeing any evidence of that yet (no, I'm not counting the basic idea coming from EarthScorpion, who isn't writing this), so it's early to be pessimistic.

    Still, I will say I understand your desire to keep your favorite villain to hate a person to hate. I feel much the same way about [spoiler]Akio[/spoiler] from Revolutionary Girl Utena.
  4. Aleph Solidarity

    I've based Precia's behaviour towards Fate, especially that meeting in the prologue, largely off what I've read about psychological means of brainwashing. Alternating low level neglect and perhaps minor cruelty with occasional praise and encouragement, to create an environment where the victim desperately seeks the rewards that they are occasionally given, which seem blissfully relieving and almost addictive due to the constant low-level atmosphere of just-barely-below-neutral treatment.

    Canon Precia, by contrast, instead of interspersing just-barely-below-neutral treatment with blissful-seeming rewards, decided to treat Fate some considerable way below neutral as standard, and then as badly as she physically could whenever she screwed up. This is not what you might call an effective strategy for bolstering morale.

    Complicated. And the kind of thing that gives the TSAB a headache.

    Well... "one character". Precia isn't the only person I've given an understanding of Game Theory [1]. But yes, the universe is largely the same as shown. I've just expanded on it a bit and fanwanked additional stuff. Which we'll be seeing (much, much) later.

    I've had to ban him from inserting blatant Madoka shoutouts after the twenty-something'th attempt [2]. Though he did help work out how the "different dimensions" thing works, which was useful [3]. And also come up with two or three new magic styles, because... all we seem to see in canon is Midchildan, which is good at "shieldy" and "shooty", and Belkan, which is good at "yarr smashy" and "I hit you with my Device WAAAAGH" [4]. Which... doesn't really make sense, in a huge universe where nearly everyone has magic.

    [1] *coughJailcough*
    [2] Raising Heart is not "Ancient and malevolent, stained with the gore-soaked aeons of its terrifying existence", dammit. Stop trying to insert it into the text.
    [3] And is definitely not going to be a plot point somewhere down the line, honest.
    [4] I am aware that I may be simplifying matters somewhat with this description.
    Winged One likes this.
  5. There's a reason that the "Beating will continue until morale improves" quote is mocked.
    Winged One likes this.
  6. Angelform Celestia’s messenger

    The TSAB would probably love for Precia to succeed. Especially if she brings back whatever miraculous medical knowledge she gains. The problem is that there is a significant risk of the plan failing and ripping a hole in reality, costing untold billions of lives.

    Just a thought, but what makes you think Raising Heart isn’t ancient, malevolent and soaked in the blood of nations?
    Ancient: no info on when she(?) was created. Can’t remember if Yuno inherited her or dug her up but he certainly isn’t the original owner.
    Malevolent: interesting question, is a weapon malevolent? While devises do have other uses they are most often used for combat and you can hardly blame a weapon for wanting to fulfil its purpose.
    Soaked in lakes of blood: she is a weapon and may have been around for a long time. Holy swords tend to spill as much blood as demonic ones.
  7. Aleph Solidarity

    Hey! Precia would like to dispute that! There's only a marginal probability that the process will irreparably damage the fabric of spacetime, and there's even a high chance that less than half of the systems involved will go beserk and start trying to kill everyone! (plus or minus eight percent)

    ...

    I kid, I kid. :D

    I don't think it takes it to GamerS levels, though. Regardless of what Nanoha's students might think.

    And anyway, we know how Raising Heart was made! Moczo has told us! (This is completely and utterly canon for the Games universe, I would like to add. :p At least for now, anyway.)
  8. NHO Misplaced Mechmind

    It's really good fic. Sad part is that we can not prevent Darth Artemis from posting in this thread.
  9. Darth Artemis The Villain in Glasses

    Look at the details of the case. The court acknowledged in Lutecia's case that she'd been freaking brainwashed, which is an even better excuse than 'mere' coercion but they still charged her. Lightly given what she was involved in, sure, but they were willing to convict in spite of her age. Would they be willing to convict Fate and Nanoha in this instance? Maybe not, but you can't say there's no precedent for their ability to do so.

    If they could charge Hayate for being on the wrong side of a Logia case (with or without her essentially pleading guilty and asking to be taken into custody) then they can charge Nanoha for the same.

    Yes, because heaven forbid that anyone have doubts about the bureau's legal policies and use them for *GASP* discussion material.
  10. Angelform Celestia’s messenger

    ... all I can say to that is: Moczo is an idiot.
  11. djibriel Evil Overlord

    You speak BLASPHEMY!!!!
  12. UberJJK Solidarity

    My suggestions for "Fill in the Blanks"
  13. Aleph Solidarity

    It's a crackfic, it's supposed to be insane.

    Though yes, I was joking about it being canon in the Gamesverse.

    *ominous cackling*
  14. SilverFox Absul zy termakrony

    Hmm...I'll take a crack at it.

    <1>: There are, as far as I am aware, three male characters who die in canon. One is Lindy's husband, who died far enough before the story actually starts that he's virtually guaranteed to still be dead. Then Regius, though since that happens at the end of StrikerS, I doubt it's him. That leaves Zest, who actually dies TWICE over the course of the series (once offscreen, once on). So, I'd say this one is most likely Zest.
    <2>: Either Yuuno or Gil.
    <3>: Most likely Chrono, given his ties to the admiral and his attitude towards Yuuno in canon.
    <4>: Not sure; if <3> is Yuuno, then this is obviously Nanoha and Raging/Raising Heart; if <3> is Gil, it's probably Hayate and the Book of Darkness.
    <5>: Not enough information to say. For a guess, Verossa Acous, him being such an easy character to overlook and all.
    <6>: A cessation of some sort is implied; dying?
  15. Zeful Out of my mind, please leave a message.

    Good joke, but honestly, no. As long as Darth Artemis comes up with legitimate arguments, he should be allowed to serve those arguments to the author and his co-writer(?).

    But then I'm the guy who spent 6 months arguing "this is stupid" with one author over a much more openly revealed plot point.
  16. Aleph Solidarity

    I want a go!

    So, in canon, we have essentially two heterosexual pairings ever, which are Chrono/Amy and Erio/Caro.

    In Games (and yes, I intend to make this into a series), I'm going to be raising the bar a bit to counteract the ridiculous levels of yuri that are going to go into the StrikerS-timeline one. Thus, excluding the two above, we're also going to be seeing tragic strains of <classified information>/<classified information> that will continue for as long as both live, an adorable little <classified information>/<classified information> romance, a small amount of <classified information>/<classified information> and possibly <classified information>/<classified information>, though <classified information> does like <classified information>, which could cause problems with the latter getting into a relationship with <classified information>.

    Then <classified information> will be chased by <classified information>, <classified information> and <classified information>, while half a dozen <classified information> are going to be chasing <classified information>, despite him being married.

    Oh, and... huh. I might also put in some <classified information>/<classified information>, which is going to make the aftermath of <classified information> very interesting. And produce the most adorable babies ever. If they get round to having any.

    Bwaa ha ha haa!
    Winged One likes this.
  17. Jonen C F.M.D.G.

    I'd put down money on at least one of those pairings being Jail/Precia, but that's a given.
  18. EarthScorpion Fell on His Sword

    We never did find out who Alicia's father was, after all.
  19. Jonen C F.M.D.G.

    Relevant:

    [yt]GwExDG7n7Zg[/yt]
  20. *twitches*

    That's it, I give up. I acknowledge I lack the ability and knowledge of MGLN to understand what the hell is being hinted at here.

    I'll be lurking somewhere closeby until we get updates.
  21. Gore17 Lord of Insanity

    Don't feel bad, I can't understand it either.
  22. Don't try too hard to understand trolls. And yes, that IS what Aleph is doing.
    Winged One likes this.
  23. SolipsistSerpen Solipsist Serpent

    But Hayate was on trial partially to determine her level of culpability in the actions of her Knights who very explicitly went around attacking mages on other planets while they were serving her and therefore is completely useless for drawing parallels as I specifically citing a non-administered world native who kept their actions entirely to non-administered areas.

    I'll also note that being charged sure hurt her career prospects. Ah, sarcasm. You may be the lowest form of wit, but you are dear nonetheless.

    Actually I'm quite enjoying that part of the discussion even if it did somewhat originate from you going "Oh god, this is going to suck" with little evidence because of your various fears. It's like watching someone start a car and assuming they're going to crash because it's a sports car and not a sedan. It may be slightly more likely but there's still not enough evidence to call it definite final outcome or even most probable.

    That is interesting, because it rather contrasts the ultimate fates of Fate, Hayate, and her knights. Now I rather want to go back through the source material to see if I can determine what might have tipped the difference, beyond just getting a different set of judges at later date. EDIT: Actually, I wonder if that IS the difference. That Lutecia getting a heavier charge is from people who are backlashing against seeing all these former criminals now occupy high positions in the military. I can see that really worrying some people. END EDIT.

    So, to sum up, of all the worst case scenarios the only ones likely to happen are that Nanoha spends some of her teenage years exiled to a nice relaxing country planet and that's if things go very badly and the others are that she to be given a slap on the wrist, found innocent, or given 'community service' (and that one's for murder).

    And that's only if she ends up on trial at all, which is not established yet, nor is it even established she will be on the wrong side of law. It's all what ifs. In fact, even if she ends up fighting the TSAB Nanoha is LESS likely to meet a negative fate than she was in canon because the TSAB don't kill and try not to cripple, unlike fighting canon Precia.

    Well, now that I've summed up your points on why the fic is going to be unreadable and discovered they're actually my points on why the characters are probably going to be fine, I'm done.
  24. One thing to note; Lutecia didn't want to do 'community service.' I suspect that Mid-Childa has a strong culture belief about how you show awareness/responsibility for your actions through service. We see crimes that would normally get you the death penalty in other cultures (like Cinque) downgraded to enlisted service as long as it is willing enlisted service.

    Lutecia was basically asserting that she wasn't responsible for her actions by not being willing to serve; that was in fact true, but I suspect that it's also a attitude that's seen in a very negative light culturally. Kind of like being poor and black in some state in America; your chances of receiving serious punishment go up something like 500%.
  25. Yes? And?

    She is a super powerful child mage who was brainwashed into doing some horrible things, it results in her being isolated from the general public a number of years while she is evaluated for her stability, which at the moment is uncertain. Protecting its population from a potential danger seems quite reasonable. Besides, she's actually happy in the last scenes of StrikerS, the TSAB actually manages to keep its population safe from a potential danger while ensuring that the said danger is in a happy environment that will turn her into a well adjusted individual.

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