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Mass Effect: Human Revolution, Thread II

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by IgnusDei, Jan 25, 2013.

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  1. TM2

    TM2 Self Explanatory

    Because even when worlds are in chaos there is some goodness in the galaxy and that itself is worth protecting. Even when Jensen and Garrus were still in C-Sec they have taken it upon themselves to protect people from the "monsters that lurk in the dark".
     
  2. WarpObscura

    WarpObscura Mooning

    After all, recall Abraham pleading for Sodom.
     
    Grosstoad likes this.
  3. Considering that the place got wiped out and that was apparently a good thing, that's not the best comparison to make.
    In any case it's called 'darkness induced apathy' and it is something that Deus Ex (and cyberpunk in general) has problems with.
     
  4. WarpObscura

    WarpObscura Mooning

    The point I was trying to make was that there is good worth pleading and fighting for even in the worst hellholes.
     
  5. Kalaong

    Kalaong What will we do? What WON'T we do?

    Of course things are a bit dark; the Deus Ex series spans the fall and resurrection of human civilization.

    Human Revolution is not the end of the world, but you can see it from there.

    The Conspiracy is five minutes before the fall of human civilization.

    Invisible War is five minutes before humanity's rebirth.

    Only the rebirth seems to have been put off for over a century because the Illuminati are kind of freaked out by the whole thing.
     
    TM2, mjajst and WarpObscura like this.
  6. Because Jensen is the protagonist and the Reapers are the antagonists? I don't understand what people are complaining about. If you like the main characters then you root for them. It shouldn't matter if they themselves can be considered "heroes" or "villians". Maybe its because I grew up with Warhammer 40,000 and A Song of Ice and Fire but, I don't get the complaints about the story being dark.
     
    Ed130 likes this.
  7. blast flame

    blast flame How far will we go if it means lighting the way?

    I'm basically awaiting the reveal of something like Helios, a game changer. I mean I think Hein and the Shadow Broker have something planned to fix this nonsense.

    Not a fan of WH 40K or A Song of Ice and Fire here; the lack of a good, possible cause is part of the reason why.
     
  8. When it comes to WH40K I routinely root for the Orks to kill off everyone else because it's the only way to restore some measure of happiness to the galaxy. I'm not at that point in this fic, but other people seem to be.

    For me to cheer about anything being saved, there needs to be a reasonable expectation that for the average inhabitant life is, in fact, better than death. If I'm ambivalent on that point, why should I root for the heroes to accomplish something that may or may not be worthwhile?
     
  9. Kalaong

    Kalaong What will we do? What WON'T we do?

    There's good people everywhere, and the technology to completely eliminate hunger, disease, hell, need itself from the galaxy. The catch is that most of that technology is either monopolized by evil fscks who think everyone else is stupid, or demonized by stupid fscks who think everyone else is evil. ¡Viva la Human Revolución!
     
  10. Grosstoad

    Grosstoad Birdbrain - Dick - Rules-Lawyer - Creeper

    Thus the question: "Why don't we let the Reapers kill 'em all and sort them out later?"

    And the answer: "Because we can't kill ALL the the Reapers with only Durendal, duh."

    EDIT: And a Schlockism that calls that the enemy of an enemy is not an ally suits well here. You can always blast them off later, which I expect will be the same reasoning those conspirator factions will be having later in ME3 equivalent chapters as they supported Durendal Mk. IV.

    EDITEDIT: Yes, I am expecting the Durendal to be destroyed three times.
     
  11. Kalaong

    Kalaong What will we do? What WON'T we do?

    Actually, maybe they could if they used hit-and-run tactics for a few decades. The Durendal is Hein's baby, after all, and he's been tinkering with it for aaages. Three Words. Wave Motion Gun.
     
  12. Durabys

    Durabys Miaow! Subscriber

    What I expect is what happened in Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water.

    Nemo: Shoot the AM/M powered submarine from underneath me? Fine. I am coming back with a Quantum singularity powered spaceborne battleship next..

    Simple. Escalation.
     
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  13. IgnusDei

    IgnusDei Laputan Machine

    I thought about rewriting the Caleston to be less Grimdark, but then I realized something:

    Caleston is a vision of what might happen to a Cyberpunk world when the issues of corporate oppression and angry transhuman children get out of control, one that our heroes need to see: Gangs kill and take whatever they want. The corporations lose their power to religious extremists. Idealistic hackers get murdered in their homes. Hedonism goes out of control, and the workers simply refuse to work for shit pay to feed ungrateful children. Deep beneath that same world are the remains of a wondrous civilization, its people having learned to become demi-gods in their own right, and cast down by sentient machines infused with the dark purpose of their creator... In the middle of that ruin lies the knowledge of the one that stood against the darkness, a beacon sent to the distant, dark future to light the way.
     
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  14. TM2

    TM2 Self Explanatory

    And though the story may have dark turns, it is so the ending might become all the brighter by comparison. At least I hope so. Then again it is DeusEx we're talking about.
     
  15. IgnusDei

    IgnusDei Laputan Machine



    this sorta helped crystallize my thoughts on the matter.

    EDIT: You might also want to check out some of MrBtongue's other vids, he gives great insight into Mass Effect as well. There's also smudboy: his story analysis of Mass Effect 1 partly influenced me to start this fic.
     
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  16. The millions of humans and aliens living their happy, normal lives in complete ignorance of the secret war going on around them send you their best and thank you for your good wishes.

    Also I quite like the OC so far. She shows potential to be a very interesting character.
     
  17. Kalaong

    Kalaong What will we do? What WON'T we do?

    And the similar number of humans and aliens being brutalized as a side effect of that secret war wonder why you want them all dead instead of saved.
     
  18. Honestly, I have no issue whatsoever with the supposed "grimdarkness" of this arc. Grimdark occurs when there's such an absence of hope that you stop caring about what happens to the characters; clearly that hasn't happened yet.

    The OTHER thing about Caleston people are complaining about strikes me as far more important, tonally: the genre shift and archaic language. The Templars are, by their very existence, huge throwbacks. They fight with swords and lances and ride robot dragons, for god's sake, we don't need them swearing about Ye Olde Skull of Sidon. I get what you're trying to do with the perspective shift, but it just isn't working at all. I really like what you just said about Caleston's Cyberpunk themes, and that has doubled my opinion of this arc, but it was TOTALLY obscured in the actual text and I wouldn't have gotten it if you hadn't explicitly stated it.
    Also, after the arc is done, you might want to go back and tweak the pacing. It's a little, ah, arrhythmic as it is.
     
  19. IgnusDei

    IgnusDei Laputan Machine

    The Templars are MEANT to be throwbacks. Remember when Jensen jokingly entertained the fantasy of being a knight-errant in medieval times? The Templars are that trope taken to the extreme: They're old fashioned people longing for the good old days, when great men were kings and normal folks were peasants and all were under the thumb of religion. Seriously, this is actually sort of canon: the ending for them in Deus Ex: Invisible War smacks of Medieval with a capital M. You've got stone walls, freakin' TORCHES for Illumination, Glass Mosaics, Greys hanging from nooses while Saman drums up a cheering pogrom with an eloquent and slightly archaic speech.
     
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  20. Which as has been opined several times without apparent notice, is not the issue. The problem is that the psudeomystical archaic tone and language is seeping beyond just the templars and into the third person narration and the apparent narrative arc of the story. The templars are deliberately archaic, we get that, it's fine. The story growing increasingly archaic and steeped in fantasy imagery is the bit that's worrying.
     
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  21. Kalaong

    Kalaong What will we do? What WON'T we do?

    The fantasy imagery is just another interpretation of their surroundings. I've brought up Vernor Vinge's True Names before - it's a cyberpunk story similarly wrapped in fantasy imagery.
     
  22. Yes, as you've said before. Unfortunately that has no real bearing on the issue raised, which is that this other 'interpretation' of the world is significantly at odds with the interpretation established in everything preceding this arc. And the transition was not well done.

    Opinion, of course, but that's all any of this is.
     
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  23. IgnusDei

    IgnusDei Laputan Machine

    The increasing tone of pseudo-mystical archaism is due to Jensen and the Deep Eyes getting closer and closer to a Prothean Relic, and they're smack dab in the middle of the ruins of their civilization. They're supposed to feel fantastic, wonderful and most importantly of all, mysterious, in sharp contrast to the drab, gray and sterile and easily explained environment of the Citadel. Once the narrative goes back to the Citadel space, the narrative's tone will become modern again.
     
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  24. Tikigod784

    Tikigod784 Saishoudoukin

    Are you going to shift tones from world to world? Cuz that would be an interesting narrative decision.
     
    Kalaong likes this.
  25. Fair enough to say, but it doesn't come across like that. It comes across as the setting itself shifting, not the characters seeing things beyond their normal experience.
     
    Apocryphist likes this.
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