MLP FiM Fic Discussion: "All American Girl"

Discussion in 'The Index' started by Vulpine Fury, May 12, 2012.

  1. Vulpine Fury Now THAT'S a topper!

    Okay, since the Rec Thread discussion is beginning to irk some, let's start a separate discussion thread for:

    All-American Girl

    A "Pony on Earth" fic, where the main character discusses her life with a reporter.
  2. Cyrus 21 Kamen Rider/Spirit of Chaos

    What I wish Princess Celestia had done after the (attempted) foalnapping.oh well, "If wishes were horses, even beggars would ride....":D
  3. Cody Fett Transitional Phrase Nut

  4. JadeCriminal Procanistrator Adept.

    Meh, It's an American teen in a body of a pony. Ponies act crazy. Humans are nutso predators to the average PonyJoe. Rarity's a little more nuts then usual. Nuff said.

    Read once for the flavour (Writing is kinda ok even if the subject is... Meh...) and put it out of your mind.
  5. Questiondeca A little hard of hearing in one ear.

    I find it odd, that this fic was just as dividing here on SB as the issue it covers was in the story.
  6. Getting away from the split, one thing that was interesting, the horses going nuts when they spot DJ. Supposedly the eye placement was more predatory in Ponies it came off as 'equine predator'/'uncanny horse valley' and seriously panicked the horses. Thoughts on that interpretation? AFAICT it is Ponies being freaked out by Earth equines, looking into somewhat familiar eyes and not seeing anyone home in most fics where Ponies come over to Earth.
  7. Cody Fett Transitional Phrase Nut

    That is a neat little coincidence. Isn't it?

    It is a interesting take, and it actually makes me wonder for a bit about why ponies keep having that uncanny valley reaction to Earth horses when they themselves have seen horses in canon and don't seem to regard them much better than we do monkeys.

    Also, here's a thought, if DJ's parents had lost the custody battle would it even had mattered all that much in the long run? DJ was fifteen years old, and within two or three years she would have likely been gone, assuming of course that she didn't get some kind of legal mumbo jumbo sooner.
  8. Probably less then that by the time the court fight was done, plus they allowed her to finish the school year. Unless the move would have stripped her of US Citizenship? And what is the Equestrian age of majority?

    But the scenario very much struck me as 'win the battle, loose the war'. Even if Rarity won custody the ground had been so thoroughly poisoned by then that DJ marking time and lighting back to the States the instant she could get away with staying was highly likely. Perhaps part of why Celestia stepped in, no matter who won, everyone lost. So 'exiling' DJ was the best damage control she could arrange.
  9. Questiondeca A little hard of hearing in one ear.

    The author has put up at least one side story for this fiction, so I'm going to read it now and see if some of what we've all been debating is cleared up in it or them (depending if the author puts up more).
  10. Cody Fett Transitional Phrase Nut

    Just read it, and the first chapter follows Twilight just after the attempted kidnapping. It's pretty good, and delves into a lot of the background of the characters' motivations. Rarity's mind was apparently pretty damn frayed before DJ even stepped foot in Equestria, and it looks like nopony ever told her about a fairly important point about DJ's story.

    Here's a link to the story: http://www.fimfiction.net/story/26335/Be-Human:-the-All-American-Girl-Sidestories
  11. DogBoy Keymaster

    Why didn't they tell her this "Fairly important point about DJ's story"?
  12. Cody Fett Transitional Phrase Nut

    Too painful I imagine. I mean, how would you tell your best friend that her missing daughter was almost raped by her own government's (who she works for) solders? It's not like Rarity would have looked at too closely at American media either, so she wouldn't have found out about it from the news.
  13. Richardson Solidarity

    I'd tell her the straight up honest truth. It hurts, but stitches to close a wound hurt too.
  14. Cyrus 21 Kamen Rider/Spirit of Chaos

    I also would tell her. Wonder if Rarity will ever find out, Probably after reading that book DJ is writing. My guess is that it is about her( DJ's) life. When Rarity gets to the Kidnapping/Near Rape part, I expect Dash to end up in the hospital for a month for ordering the kidnapping, and when she finishes the whole thing I expect Rarity to apologise and to beg forgivness from DJ, even though she believes that she deserves none, at all.
  15. Cody Fett Transitional Phrase Nut

    The implication is that Rarity is dying though, and the author has implied that the whole affair will end in tears, death, and hatred . . . He may be joking on that though. . . . I hope.

    Also, here's chapter 2: http://www.fimfiction.net/story/26335/2/Be-Human:-the-All-American-Girl-Sidestories/Sing-Swan-Song
  16. Cyrus 21 Kamen Rider/Spirit of Chaos

  17. To be fair the main story has the 'rape' being a misinterpretation. Allegedly the soldiers ripped the clothes off thinking they were restraints, and the positioning was merely unfortunate given a Pegasus was trying to lift off with a VERY uncooperative and scared Earth Pony hanging onto a tree for dear life.
  18. Cody Fett Transitional Phrase Nut

    I'd probably agree with you, many people would, but actually getting up the nerve to tell someone is a whole hell of a lot different than actually doing it. There have been times in my life where I've put off saying something for quite some time because of the pain that it would bring, and then when the time finally came I was physically unable to talk. You know, its times like this that I ask, "Would I act differently than this character?" and I pray I'm wrong.

    Indeed it would. Still, the author also could have had things turn out much worse earlier in the story, and he didn't. There's still hope.

    Also, the second chapter of Be Human confirms that DJ has posttraumatic stress disorder, and that her favorite song is very . . . soft.

  19. DogBoy Keymaster

    That reasoning for ripping off the cloths would make sense if Equestrians didn't already have cloths, so should have been able to sight identify clothing.
  20. Technically a prison jumpsuit and if stretched even a straight jacket can be defined as 'clothing'. Unless going super fancy Equestria fashions seem to run to more minimalistic accents, how often other than things like formal gowns (and sometimes not even then) do they cover Cutie Marks, and thus hindquarters? DJ with human nudity taboos almost certainly did not go around flashing everyone like that.
  21. Cody Fett Transitional Phrase Nut

    And the author's having problems with submitting the story to EqD. Apparently they don't except Ponies-on-Earth stories for some unknown reason. Something I'm sure a few of the people here can relate to.

    Err, DJ was 15 at the time, and it wasn't ever said what the ponies were doing during the three months between finding Earth and confronting the Secretary of State. They could have been gradually trying to convince each side that they weren't going to start shooting each other, or they could have been questing through the wilderness until they reached civilization and read a newspaper talking about DJ.

    The author's wording may have been a bit off, but I think he was pointing to government incompetence instead of diplomats stalling. Which would make sense, since the author's made it clear in other statements that he really doesn't believe that government workers are anything other than chronically incompetent by and large (and that he himself falls into those same habits, which is why he completely passed over the issue of the ponies' terraforming in the story).
  22. firefossil I have charts. Lots of charts.

    Making blind appeals to government incompetence does not explain away plot holes. Such as why Twilight Sparkle was unable to ask even the most basic questions about the most important matters for over 3 months. That isn't a question of government incompetence, that's a question of Twilight Sparkle being incompetent, and its not in character for Twilight Sparkle to be that hideously incompetent.

    This is what should've happened as soon as contact was established with the American Government, within days:
    American Diplomat: Who are you?
    Twilight Sparkle: I'm Twilight Sparkle, emissary of blah blah blah making contact with earth blah blah blah.
    American Diplomat: Blah blah blah diplomatic vagaries blah blah blah what do you want, and what are you willing to give?
    Twilight Sparkle: We would like to establish a formal alliance blah blah blah, but in return we'd like you to return Sandalwood to our people, you do know of her right? She's the only pony on the planet, probably the first thing you thought of when you saw us...
    American Diplomat: Blah blah blah naturalized citizen blah blah blah.

    Yet instead, 3 months after first contact, after months of diplomatic discussion, they are apparently having the debate that should've happened during first contact. However, the author inexplicably delays this by 3 months for insane troll logic reasons, which is really just an excuse so that Rainbow Dash can launch the foalnapping, which she should've done within weeks if she was gonna go in blind anyways.

    I don't appreciate authors letting their political views contaminate their fics. If I wanted my dose of politics, I'd go for the Non-Sci-Fi Debates section. If I wanted fanservice I'd go watch porn or something. When I want a story, I want a freaking story, not an author scoring cheap points about politics. And no, I don't like it even when its of political views that agree with me, it remains out of place.

    The fact remains that the author's story just doesn't make sense. The author wants the story to go in a certain direction, so it does, and she paints over the plot holes and idiot balls and OOC behavior that result with "lol government is incompetent".
  23. Shinzakura Yeah, that guy.

    To which I never said by and large they are exceedingly incompetent (in fact, part of one of the major issues in government right now is the fact that government employees are under attack because it's believed that we are incompetent, even as they expect said employees to do any-and-everything in government.) What I meant was that oftentimes this happens to the best of people, from the guy doing janitor work at the VA to the president himself - it's a condition called being human.

    Secondly, writing is a very personal, very intense endeavor for many (not saying me, specifically, though it does apply from time to time.) I don't appreciate people who feel the need to tell authors what they can or can't do with their own works. Bear in mind that what I've been stating in the work is within the context of the story; I have not put my personal politics in this because I'm writing characters, not a GOP tract (for the record, I'm not even Republican.)

    Firefossil, you feel that I'm leaving plotholes, but there are plenty of works that leave plotholes and then fill them. It's called a Chekov's Gun, and if you're going to quote from TV Tropes, you need to know more than just the ones you choose to beat other authors over the head with. I appreciate that you don't like my style of writing. Fine, no biggie. But I don't appreciate that you feel the need to disguise insults as critiques and then state "she" (and for the record, I am a he) can come here to deal with it.
  24. Vulpine Fury Now THAT'S a topper!

    Okay, first off,

    "Hi!"

    *Fires welcome-wagon partillery*

    Welcome to the forums!

    :D
  25. firefossil I have charts. Lots of charts.

    Hiya author, welcome to the nerdological warzone of SB! First things first, let me note that the mere fact that I'm complaining about your fic is because I did in large part enjoy much of it. I was terribly disappointed at My Little Dashie's handling of the concept of "pony on earth", and felt that yours managed to handle properly what My Little Dashie left as plot holes. I wouldn't waste time railing on a fic that I didn't see something of merit in.

    Second off, I'm argumentative and stubborn. Don't take my words too harshly, I probably spend way too much time in the political debate areas of this forums, and it leaks into my other posts. Sorry if I come off a bit rude.

    Anyways, let me give you feedback. Cody Fett was complaining about me not doing so earlier, but honestly despite my aggressiveness on SB, I'm quite shy and not willing to do more than lurk on most sites.

    Too true. My major was decision science and the graduate degree I'm taking is in public policy. This stuff is pretty much always in my mind.

    Also true.

    I still don't get how you people do it. I just spent the last couple of days writing an essay for school that was a mere 4k pages, yet for me that feels like an epic endeavor.

    I don't intend to. Besides my shyness, part of the reason I wouldn't have been too inclined to bring it up with you anyways is because I wasn't sure how to make it into properly constructive criticism, rather than just railing against things I don't like.

    You are correct in that in media res rashamon type stories where the viewpoints presented aren't so supposed to represent the author's viewpoints or even factual reality within the setting aren't really too my tastes. Yours was sufficiently good that I gave it a try anyways. If your story intends to clarify later it will, but for now it looks like a story with very strange plot holes, such as Twilight Sparkle spending 3 months twiddling her nonexistent thumbs.

    My point was that if you wanted a critique, you should come here, because that is in large part what SB does. Numerous fics of all levels of qualities and tastes are presented here and critiqued. While some may be willing to critique outside of this forum, I am not. In all honesty, as I noted before, I wasn't sure how to offer constructive criticism anyways given that I either liked parts of your fic or thought they made zero sense.

    Again, thanks for coming here, and I wish I could be more help.

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