Feel free to submit questions so it can become more thorough.
Discussion in 'Non Sci-fi Debates' started by Harry Leferts, Oct 20, 2013.
And that's sadly the norm.
The Gypsy are a criminal enterprise, if anything they're worse than the Bratva and certainly worse than La Cosa Nostra. You're supposed to destroy criminal enterprises, and the normal way (breaking their social support structure) hasn't worked because they're not members of the civilized world.
Bratva really don't like them.
I'm not surprised.
Ok time for story from Kaliningrad about Gypsy's! Around 5-7 ago started to arrive here in groups setting up in village Dorogney, and after this level of drug trafficking theft and rape in nearby area simply skyrocketed, it was going for several months until local criminal organisation and police started to get angry. But you see ours criminals like to thing that they are more cultured then in continental Russia so they gathered heads of all ethnic crime groups and peacefully advised gypsy's to stop agitating police, because they have gentlemen treaty of keeping low profile, they didn't open their ears to this advised, after this local bratva ambushed two cars full of gypsy's and burned them down. After this police and governor started to understand that shit is getting serious and said full stop for local crime lords saying that they will deal with gypsy's. But you see closeness to Europe seriously restricted them in means to achieve it, but they found a way! Out of 83 houses built by gypsy's only 3 has legal documents, for several months letters with notes that their buildings are illegal were sent them, no response and then after 5 months noted in letters OMOH came with bulldozers and simply leveled every illegal building, after which they were unofficial advised to leave region or if they wanted to stay to disperse and keep low profile, because next time they will give locals green light to deal with them.
For those of us not quite so used to East European legitimate business men here is the link to the WIKI about them.
The Solntsevskaya Bratva (Russian: Солнцевская братва), also known as the Solntsevskaya Brotherhood, or Solntsevskaya gang, is a powerful organized crime association from Moscow, Russia. It is named after the Solntsevo neighborhood in the city. It is considered to be one of the most dangerous criminal organizations in the world and is the largest faction of the Russian Mafia.
Gentlemen to whom it seems you should be polite to and if they ask you not to do something at least consider their advice.
I think something RandomJ said, comes close to why most Americans don't seem to get hatred of gypsies, is that because gypsies don't exist or in different forms, in the States, at least for any long time.
Because they would get shot quick, especially in small towns where they don't take kindly to strangers, let alone strangers who begin wrecking or stealing shit.
Local crime bosses are not much on violent crimes but more on smuggling, they for most part try to keep their hand clear and try to be as legitimate as possible, they have wide net of contacts and you can say bases through Baltic states providing protection for cargo on railways and cargo automobiles. Everybody know everybody and if you earn bad rep nobody will want to deal with you.
And then contacted the authorities. Uh huh.
She was just a tool to bilk more child-support money from the gov.
That makes sense to me . I can understand why they might want people not to be socially disruptive in terms of anti social behaviour after all they have to live there.
They like to position them selves as real European level crime bosses - well cultured and well mannered, not some low level bidlo from mainland Russia.
Please excuse my ignorance as this is the first time i have heard of the Bratva. So if i assume that they are like top level Mafia Dons i would be closer to the mark?
They differ from region to region canonical Bratva is mainland Russia mafia, local like to view them selves as protection and shipment syndicates.
Thank you for all your help in explaining things to a slightly confused Brit.
What happend to the Vory's?
Thanks, I only know organized crime from reading... and part of that even reading Shadowrun.^
Which is about as close as I want to get to that topic IRL anyway...
Воры в законе? Old guard is slowly dying out, and some thing point that FSB slowly killing them when opportunity arise, now day's there are those who go respected businessman and those who go full brain dead - отморозки.
I don't know how in other country's but in Russia MO of criminal is greatly differ from region to region.
Well, your regions are other people's countries.
But yeah, I guess they have to adapt to local conditions everywhere.
On a broad level, the Gypsies are not anything new; this is exactly what has happened every time in history where a sedentary civilisation and nomads coexist in the same place. The sedentary people lay claim to the land, divide it up into property and generally contrive, just through the normal functioning of their society rather than through deliberate malice, to make the nomads' way of life impossible or as difficult impossible. The nomads attempt to carry on anyway, which earns them the ire of the settled society and generates discrimination against them.
The situation in the UK is a perfect example; the reason that you get Travellers setting up shop in public parks or on private farmland is that their traditional stopping places are no longer available due to development of some sort. This pisses off the people who own or make use of that land, and legitimately so. That justifiable dislike for that particular band is then all anybody hears about, and it's then projected onto all members of the group. The result is that everybody hates them, so things that would actually solve the problem - like their buying land to set up proper stopping sites - is shot down, forcing them to continue to piss people off by illegally making use of other peoples' land.
It generally always ends with either the eventual destruction of the nomad culture, or the nomads leaving.
In civilized countries, there are a few steps you should take, when encountering with wandering children, or even elders*, who can't give personal information and/or shouldn't been where they are. It's called contacting with the authorities, so they can try to ID them and look them up in the missing persons' database. After they can't find the child's parents you might apply for an adoption if you like it.
And as noted by the article, they were found to be taking welfare money illegally from the state too.
* shit happens, especially with elders who are no longer possess their sanity all the time, but can still pass as normal if a bit wonky people. The mother in law of my father's ex coworker pulled stunts regularly, like "escaping" them and traveling back to her hometown some 300km away using train and buses, forcing her family to go after her. And at least she was an easy case (outside of having to take 600km round trips to fetch her), because they knew where she would go, even in her hometown. They can sometimes literally try walk through the wilderness when they feel like it, prompting the relatives and the authorities to sweep the countryside after them.
The current US immigration laws won't really allow them to do that, even if they could pony up the money for flight there. And get a visa you know ...
On the other hand, some of the Hungarian Gypsies from the Mohács area tried to pull this shit with Canada, claiming they are persecuted back here (well, officially not). Thing blew up after a while when the authorities found out that most of them were up to their no good, like embezzling welfare funds, involving in crimes and/or using their less wealthy and fortunate brethren as virtual slaves.
Just to be sure: you realise that Gypsies/Romanis/Manush/Tsiganes/Whatever came pretty late in Europe? They are thought to have entered the Balkans from Anatolia in the 14th century or something like that.
The way you said it I get the impression that you speak as if the Rome where already nomading their way around Europe when the Various Gotho-Germano-Celtico-Whatever were mass-migrating and settling more or less randomly.
The only contact I have had with them has been negative, setting up camp being evicted and turning the place into a bloody tip, random shit being stolen from my parents garden part on a mini crime wave that magically stopped when they were moved on. Getting you door knocked on asking if you want tarmacking, landscape guarding etc etc by little kids that should be in school.
They are not exactly well liked anywhere
and in a development