OCP HiveQuest: Thread 2

We'll go with that vote plan then. My main computer is in the shop for repairs right now, though, so it will be a few more days before I can work on it.

I just realized, with the researcher creature if we get a lot of them we'd have something approximating a Dyson swarm.

So we could construct a Matrioshka brain. In theory.

Okay so this isn't a serious suggestion, just brainstorming for fun.

Making them work together as a unified brain should go under the normal hive connection...

Pros and cons.
On the plus side we'd probably be smarter than a reaper. Any reaper. All reapers. On the negative side I'm not sure we'd even be the same creature anymore. I don't know what mental illnesses a matroshka hive could have, but likely they aren't pretty.

Also we'd need lots of researcher creatures. As in a few billions would probably be on the low side. Meaning we would need some form of exponential increase of the researcher creatures.

The simplest way to do that would be as with the HMS make them make themselves.

So upgrade each researcher with a womb and make it a hermaphrodite, able to clone itself. Suicide clones that has to much mutation in them. We don't want researchers coming out... wrong. Each child will grow up over a number of turn. The most important part is they can birth a new child every three months (ie, every turn) and that every child can do the same. Meaning initially the children are just a hermaphroditic womb themselves, growing into a researcher over three or more turns, mothership style, but birthing while they do.

The next difficult part would be to get them the materials required. I don't know how much mass one brain requires but well, it is a bit. Multiply that by large numbers and you get a lot. There are ways to solve this though. We could build a HMS creature designed to feed on a sun, give it a similar setup to keep up with demand, and then nick plasma from the sun itself. Alternatively, start grabbing planets and moving them into orbit around the sun, sundering them up and processing them into a nutrient cloud. Just transporting materials from the gas giants would probably be to inefficient.

This might also solve the problem with keeping this many creatures fed, ie maintenance.

So the womb installation should be easy, and assuming we solve the material problem we'd get a new child each turn (ideally). Equally ideally it wouldn't take to many turns growing into a full researcher, and while doing so it'd gain children of its own.

So we'd double our number of researchers each turn.

Starting with two researchers, assuming no or negligent loss from lack of materials, inefficiences in the system, old age, or mutations it'd take us around 30 turns to reach one billion (2^30). The turn after that we get another billion. This number of turns could be cut down a bit by adding in more researchers the old fashioned way, but only a bit, and we'd need a lot more than a billion, so 30 turns is probably still the best cause scenario of getting the initial brain going. And at that point we'd pretty much need to start dismantling gas giants to keep up with the material cost.

Though assuming we could use the extra billion research dice for psychic abilities trough some form of upgrade or research project we might be able to dismantle smaller suns or solar systems. Meaning we'd not only have a matrioshka brain, but one capable of copying itself in the time required to eat a solar system with truly excessive psychic might, mature the brain components children and move them to the next star.. Say 3-4 turns for each. Assuming each turn really is around three months... three years or less.

Ideally.

In practice one reaper or even salarian virus and we have to suicide the entire thing. Plus a few dozen or so other problems with the idea.

But in theory, it would be awesome!

Oh, as a side question, could we install wombs into our HMS, make them have children that grow into new HMS over a few turns, rather than assembly them from scratch and would this even make them cheaper?

Wait, can hive creatures even have children like that, we tend to assemble creatures if I've understood it correctly... maybe it isn't actually possible to grow a hive creature, you have to have some forms of implants... I really wish I'd have though to check this before I wrote all this... ack.

A well, project Epic Ping Pong Processing Power will have to be a pipe dream I suppose.

Um, I'm fairly sure that it doesn't quite work that way.

Good luck with that, you are going to need it. I am speaking from expirience as victum client AND ex-employee.

You've got it completely backward - we are *already* Matrioshka brain. Thanks to hive telepathy, individual components could be anywhere without loss of processing power. This is actually root of our research woes - we have problems with whole "multiple viewpoints" thing.

I suspect that Researchers are actually as removed from hivemind as possible and still remain part of it, so linking them would be counter-productive at best.

Also, VN Researchers have small problem of raw material soures. We have some weird stuff with psychics, but basicaly still CHON-creatures.

Thats not it, each creature is an is unique existence in of itself. The reason the Hive is bad at research, is we don't have the resources of 100's of worlds. Add that to the fact the researchers, are the first real specializes science creature the Hive has made. Compare our few researcher, to the Citadel millions of researchers, and hundreds of thousand research facility.

That doesn't explain our research cap and that all our research targets are doubled. We are actually genuinely bad at research.

Our research cap is because putting more then the earth's entire GDP into a project. Wont get around the fact that you still have to wait for the results of an experiment. In other worlds it time not cost imposing the research cap. We can put 100d20 into a research project at once, but it will take a year to use all of that up.

And the doubling of target numbers for our research rolls?

I sugested something similar way back. WIth some key difrences.

What i sugested was a real dysonsphere. Not a net, not cloud but actuly encasing an entire star. This sphere would consist of 3 things: Energy to Mater converters, research bioforms and specialy designed birthing chambers for capital ships. The idea is to have the researchers and the "generators" deep inside close to the star, and constantly grow outwards with bigger and more bio factories, and in this way create the industrial capacity to produce entire swarms of capital ships at once. This would mean that our sensitive research bioforms would have all the protection they need while also using a present energy source to boost our industry.

It was turned down by others since actuly doing it would require a great amount of research into several diferent categories such as actuly developing energy to mater conversion(GM says its doable). Its also very much a mater of resources since doing a sphere or even a net would in a resonable amount of time would require a big chunk of our current industrial ability. It is to sum things up probably the biggest Mega Project we could atempt as things are.

Back when this first started, didn't everyone hate the idea of having specialized Hive Units? Especially 'Brain' types. That it would make us vulnerable?.... After reading that and then seeing you create the Gas Harvesters, I kinda admit to facepalming. Because if the Reapers go and blow them all up all those dice will be gone, right?

How many dice did we have then? How many do we have now? Sometimes security must be sacrificed to allow for scope of action.

The bad thing about energy to matter conversion is how much energy it requires. If we have that kind of energy we have already won.
Building a millimeter membrane hugging the surface of the sun, would take 43 years of solar output to fabricate from energy at perfect efficiency.

So it's like gambling. Or having a house made of wood in an area that has many fires. You live nice and cozy, have a small fire scare but it gets fixed up well enough.

You look at the news and say 'It can't happen to me~!' And install a fireplace. Please don't be too mad when your house burns down.

It would be built with stuff from the outside not by self replecating. What we would actuly use the process for would be to feed the brains and factories so as to not need to go harvesting resources to birth ships or be smart. Also we have no idea on the efficiency we can reach with it unless we research it to begin with... We are also not sure if we couldnt actuly survive inside a star given enough research to modify a creature for it. An alternate sugestion(dont remember who from) to the dyson sphere was to build a Hive Star(death star hivemind style) that would tap the stars core direclty for resources.

The problem was mainly the energy to matter conversion. using the energy from a dyson sphere for other things is better.
Still the dyson sphere would be to expensive for now, and possibly ever. Solar even solar close to the sun is not that good when you have fusion.

Draining a star for resources and energy is a much cooler idea.
Vision:
A couple of "models" from now our HSM have evolved to sit in the hyperspace and drain fusion plasma directly from the hearth of the stars.
Using it for energy and then using the fused remains for building materials, using matter transmutation to get the right mix of substances.

We should try to figure out how to manufacture Eezo before we even think about EtM Conversion.

Strangely enough we've put GGHs and HMS in hyper for just those reasons. Hard for Reapers to get at them there. Also while they can blow up gas giants I doubt they could logically destroy all of the hundreds located just in our section of space let alone the galaxy. If they try we can show the Council. We also actually have a decent navy atleast enough to maybe kill a Reaper end masses.

Turn 37

[x] (159d20+159) VN-HMS
1926: Awesome (2 VN-HMS clusters and 3 VN-HMS built)
You quickly get to work building the new HMS design.

[x] (25d20+500) Build dreadnoughts
803: Great (32 Dreadnaughts built)
For the first time you build the mightiest warship in your arsenal, the Dreadnaught.

[x] (4d20+1 carrier (acting as dreadnought stand-in), 40 cruisers, 80 frigates+Sasha) Wargames and Realspace FTL doctrine
39: Okay (Information gained)
Now that you have an accurate form of FTL travel, you get to work figuring out how best to use it. Unfortunately, you quickly become aware of several drawbacks.

First, the FTL is very power intensive. When your ships are using it, they have little energy to spare for other abilities, and even after they have dropped out of FTL, their powers are weakened for a time. Not enough to leave them crippled, but enough to weaken them in combat.

Second, the large power requirements means it takes some time to charge up for a jump; usually around 30 seconds.

Third, accurate is a relative term. Even short jumps often put you hundreds of kilometers from where you were aiming. This is close enough for combat, but it is impossible to keep in formation when jumping. Additionally, to get this level of accuracy you have to already be fairly close to your enemy. You can't just jump right into their formation from several light-days away.

Finally, anti-FTL tactics have been in development for almost as long as FTL itself. By reading up on historical battles in the Citadel, you learn of several strategies to use FTL in combat, and the counter-strategies developed against them. Modern fleets are all well trained in proven counter-FTL tactics.

The end result of all the above factors is that using FTL in combat is extremely high-risk. Your ships will be in suboptimal condition at the start of the fight, your opponent will be prepared for you, trying to escape the fight will leave you a sitting duck, and the rest of your fleet won't be in a position to help you.

Still, this doesn't mean FTL is useless. One of the problems (inability to swiftly escape) is already solved through the ability to jump to hyperspace. The others can be overcome by using superior numbers and being willing to accept losses. The Citadel and the Krogans can't afford to waste their ships and eezo in high-attrition warfare, but the Hive doesn't have that problem. As long as you are willing to accept heavy casualties, you can use FTL to fight effectively.

[x] (4d20) Build Frigates for patrol and reconnaissance duties
119: Good (256 Frigates built)
You build several Frigates and spread them throughout your territory.

[x] (25d20+8d6+Sagan) Predictive Modelling
322: Okay (Research continues)
Your work on predictive modelling continues. You make good progress, but not enough to be showing any effects yet.

[x] (25d20) Biolaser Cost and Size Reduction
299: Good (Biolaser improved)
Refinement of the specialized techniques necessary to build biolasers has reduced their effective cost multiplier to 2.5x

[x] (25d20+Steve) Eezo Immunity and Integration
266: Good (Research continues)
You have reached the point where you can effectively integrate eezo into your creatures. Now it just needs a bit more refinement before it becomes combat capable.

[x] (50d20) Build Researchers
501: Average (25 Researchers built)
Enough researchers are built to max out on one research project. For now, they and your other researchers are clustered in your inhabited system furthest from the relay.

[x] (4d10+20) Quarian Contract
45: Good (.75 Eezo gained)
The Quarians have begun scouting out your side of the relay, looking for eezo deposits.

[x] (6d10) Build Trade Routes
31: Average (Work begins on a new trade route)
You get started on another trade route.

Confirm to the Salarians that we can terraform worlds in the habitable zone "relatively easily"
The Salarians (and the rest of the council) are definately interested. They aren't sure what they could pay you with, though. Right now the hive mostly buys eezo from the Citadel, but if you start buying it in mass amounts its going to start causing a major inflation in the price, and that's something the council can't afford to let happen in the middle of a war. Is there anything else you might be interested in?

(Steve recommends we use the resources gained from our trade with the Citadel to start preparing them against the Reapers. The more reapers they can tie down and destroy, the fewer we have to deal with. He's not sure how best to do that though. Sagan mentions that joint research projects don't have to be about hive technology, we could improve the Citadel's eezo technology and industry instead. Sagan suggests we help build up their military infastructure.)

Military Operations: CBG 5-8, armies/transports already present, additional armies/transport we recently built.
Continue assisting the Citadel in with their war against the Krogan with our forces that are already present, and send in the new armies and their transports as additional reinforcements.
With the resistance on the first planet effectively broken, your armies and their reinforcements head off with the Citadel to a more heavily defended world. This time, you practice having your fighters provide support to your ground forces. With over 4,000 fighters, you have enough to overwhelm any resistance, but fighters in atmosphere also prove to be an easy target for ground installations.
(2 Fighter wings destroyed, 1 army damaged)

Other events
The Krogans return to the relay system, and this time they bring superior numbers. You and the Citadel try to hold them off, are quickly forced to fall back.
(Roughly 1,000 Krogan Frigates and Cruisers hit the relay. Most withdrew after the battle, leaving around 250 to blockade the relay)
(Lost 2 Fighter wings, 2 Cruisers, 50 Frigates)
(Relay temporarily blockaded, lose 5d10 next turn, and you need to open it or you will lose all trade dice)

Id recomend we keep the researchers we have on predictive modeling. Also best to continue on making lasers smaller.

As for the Krogan... With Quarians actively on our side things become abit trickier when it comes to dealing with them. Not exactly gonna garner us bonus point if we stand by and let the Krogans kill Quarians mining scouts in our territory.

IT LIVES! -high5s Drakk-

OK, we need to clear the Krogan off the relay. We also need to make one last push to integrate eezo, looks like, and keep going on some other research projects.

We have 362d20 (45d20 of it vHMS) to play with this turn. The following is a rough draft (dice allocations may need to be tweaked for efficiency purposes).

181d20: Build moar HMS.

• 120d20: vHMS
• 61d20: Standard HMS (build them to fill "gaps" where there are existing HMS on scattered gas giants in insufficient numbers to form clusters)

R&D: 150d20

• 25d20 + Sagan +8d6 (Researchers): Predictive modeling
• 25d20 + Steve: Eezo immunity
• 25d20 + 25d6(Researchers): Biolaser size & cost reduction
• 25d20 + Sasha: Blind Jump Research
• 40d20: Build researchers

Military: 41d20

• 16d20: Protocarriers
• 16d20: More fighters
• 9d20: Fit all existing cruisers with stockpiled MACs, build more MAC cruisers

Trade: 5d10

• 5d10: Quarian Contract

Logic behind the decisions:

-HMS building as standard. I see the point to building SOME vHMS but don't want more than 25% of our capability tied up in them. As a result, while "surging" production to get them to 20% or so this turn is not a bad idea, I'd like to see the number dropped in successive turns.

-R&D: Working on existing projects. Only 40d20 on researchers right now so we can fit in an extra project. Sagan and Steve stay where they are on R&D; Sasha is best suited to working on blind jumping as we need that capability ASAP and a side effect of it is studying hyperspace, which we know very little about for relying on it as much as we do. Predictive modeling, of course, requires moar research so we can make researchers better and potentially lift the dice cap a bit. Eezo immunity is almost done, might as well finish it up. And we need biolasers to be reduced in cost so we can start fitting them universally to the military.

-Military: We need more strike capability. That means more carriers. As they require a few turns to mature, we can produce escorts in the next few turns. As biolasers aren't QUITE ready for prime-time yet, I figure that fitting the rest of our cruisers with MACs and building several more won't hurt.

Add in to keep the Quarians inside our territory informed of Krogan movements both around the relay and away from it.(none dice action)

I am actually willing to cut into our industrial production this turn, in favor of building up a military to deal with the Krogan blockade. I also think that all our industrial expansion should go towards more VN-HMS this turn, then next turn we can start splitting up production into VN and normal HMS.

Fair enough.

The Krogan blockade is a sideshow. Remember that the Council is very slowly winning this war, and we don't want it to end quickly. Busting out a massively expanded military and breaking the blockade with ease will refocus the Krogan's attention on us and force continued fleet operations, resulting in an even quicker end to the war if we choose to win in space. All the blockade costs us is 10d10 per turn, which is pretty minimal compared to the dice we'd have to spend to get it back. Besides, we have the military necessary to break the blockade-- our GSVs with full fighter loads can launch an alpha strike from hyperspace and chop up the frigates and cruisers they have with ease. We may want to produce a Beacon this turn and hide it in the relay system in order to allow for tactical jumping... hrm.

#Peanut gallery ahoy#
Care to make a suggestion?
Considering that there is a huge navy right inside your borders, maybe you should simply put almost of your energy on dreaghnouts with lasers. It would be quite of a moraleloss to the Krogan to meet HUNDREDS
of these on the battlefield. Remember, others have only an minor amount of dreaghnouts, this would be completely unbeliable and unexpected.

There is no Peanut gallery.
And no, this is wartime - dreadnought are produced by much bigger amounts.
Still, if we are to use all our dice to produce dreads, well... Complite space domination if few turns.
Its not like we need it now.
I think, right now, we can strike a deal with Quarians about creating a world for them in exchange for their specialists and whatever.