People throw Plastic Bottles, Cops quell possible uprising. Obama somehow involved?

Discussion in 'Non Sci-fi Debates' started by Dusel, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Dusel Loving Smiles!



    So Obama goes to visit and a bunch of, I don't know exactly what they are, sign bearers? Yeah since they aren't preaching or anything, Signbearers are there and they are ridiculed and eventually stoned, well not only stoned a lot of bottles are thrown at them and about half-way through the video the police show up, blame is basically throw at the Christian 'Protestors' I don't know if it's right to call them Protestors. So the police show up and everything quiets down, then they leave and the Christians get bashed even more.

    The Hilarious part is at the 13:00+ minute mark where the chief and deputy chief of the police there tell the Christians to stop antagonizing the others, but you see they aren't even preaching so it's obviously the signs that are the problem, but signs can be ignored right? Well apperently no, the signbearers need to be attacked and now at the 13:00+ minute mark the police basically want the Christians to get the heck out of there, that their patience is running thin.

    The whole problem is that I think everyone is being a bonehead - the Christian Protestors have a right to excersize their right to Free Speach but are doing it in a way in which many would find provocative, those throwing objects at them are thin skinned retards and there are APPERENTLY only 30 police officers on a festival with 100,000 people, police officers that were I think cougt on camera turning the other way when the stonings began.

    In this Thread: The Police believe that 200 Muslim Youngsters throwing bottles and rocks are LESS of a threat then a dozen or two dozen guys with signs. Discuss!

    Oh, forgot to say, the dozen Christian "Protestors" are kicked out because the police cannot spare 2 Police Officers to protect them from the crowd, but not only do they send a dozen officers to kick them out but after they leave and are in their van another 12 officers pull them over to ensure that they aren't creating any more disturbences.
  2. confusopoly Arguably sane

    I don't care if the signs were provocative. Nobody gets to physically assault somebody for stating their opinion.

    Telling them they're assholes: Fine.
    Telling everyone you meet that they're assholes and yelling loudly: ok.
    Making fun of them and / or their beliefs: ok.
    But throwing rocks and bottles, i.e. physical assault: No, just no.

    Edit:
    About the police response there are a few possibilities:
    1) Incompetence: They were dealing with a huge amount of failed planning in any way they could (incompetently, since they used that many officers for showing the sign people out) because they didn't have the amount of force neccessary to stop the stuff-throwing.

    2) Laziness: What is easier? Keeping 300 violent assholes from throwing things or asking about 20 quiet people to leave? Not really how things are supposed to be done and kind of dickish, but there you go.

    3) CONSPIRACY (insert scary music here): There is a pattern of oppression against <insert-signbearers-group> and this is just another instance of it. Maybe the stuff-throwers were even in league with the police.

    My bet is on a mix of 1 and 2 actually.
  3. You could have saved a couple of words there. "Thin skinned retards" could have been replaced with "Muslims" with very little change in meaning.
  4. southdakotaboy Bursting liberal bubbles

    The muslim community has been very successful in intimidating people. Take note that they will get away with this and not one of the people on tape throwing rocks or other objects will be punished.

    This will also cause them to become more aggressive with those who don't share their views. Violence and intimidation of non muslims is all part of their game plan. You see it in Europe, Africa, Asia, hell you even see it in Australia
    Vendetta likes this.
  5. Minohtar Advocatus Diaboli

    You could at least post the original source, Dusel.

    http://theunitedwest.org/american-muslims-stone-christians/

    So yeah I'll take their obvious efforts to bait the Muslims with a big grain of salt.
  6. Which party runs the show locally there - Repubs or Dems?
  7. Dusel Loving Smiles!

    Well they were thin skinned retards, I mean there are very thick skinned normal people who are Muslims and I don't want to generalize, I've shoved my foot in my mouth way too often when I generalize.
  8. Dusel Loving Smiles!

  9. Minohtar Advocatus Diaboli

    Oh boy it gets even better when you actually read the blurb on their YouTube video.

    That's right people, this is the beginning of MUSLIM AMERICA!
  10. confusopoly Arguably sane

    I don't care if they're Muslims or not. I would have the exact same position if the guys throwing rocks were skinheads or, let's say a militant chapter of MADD throwing rocks at a beer tent :p

    But yes, these intimidation attempts need to be shut down hard. Because when one group can get away with shit like that it's only a matter of time before others get the same idea.

    Edit:
    @Minohtar: Why am I not surprised? That situation is a propagandist's wet dream.
  11. Dusel Loving Smiles!

    Yeah that is a bit much, the speach would have worked better if they had preached during their confrontation, but it doesn't invalidate their concerns, not that...Muslim America thing but the rest?
  12. So, once again, once Leftists are allowed into positions of political power, they deliberately fail at the most basic functions of government.
  13. Ben The Original Ben again

    tl;dr thinly veiled hate group gets rocks pitched at them by this generation's scapegoat minority.

    I'm with the cops.
    croxeye, mdman1, Thanatos and 4 others like this.
  14. ScreenXSurfer Humanity+

    Muslims are so crazy man.
  15. We get something similar at gay pride every year.
    The police absouletly love guarding a dozen nutjobs who attempt to get in the face of thousands of gay people
    Who tend to get more drunk and abusive as the afternoon wears on.
    Standing outside a religious festival telling the belivers they are wrong and going to burn in the fires of hell well its going to cause problems.
    Don't think muslims tend to do that outside bible camp because its stupid.
    A bigger police force might have been effective but dearborn pd is 200 strong total
    Add sleeping holiday training sickness 30 police at the festival is stretching things etc etc.
    Best will in the world they are not producing a shield wall to protect asshats from other asshats:(
    Maybe next years the state can provide cover or you could just not go and annoy people.
  16. blake0831 Providing fire support.

    WBC-style tactics?
  17. Minohtar Advocatus Diaboli

    Except, it's not even rocks. It's some plastic bottles and empty soda cans and shit and some eggs.

    I mean really, this video is hilarious.

    First off, it's heavily edited. So, basically completely useless in actually determining who's at fault and who did what. For all we know the guys who taped it were chucking rocks themselves... and just conveniently edited out those bits.

    Secondly, the effort to talk it up on-tape is ludicrous. You have a bunch of kids (I mean this literally -- at some points the "angry crowd" appears to be largely made up of middle-schoolers!) and shit standing around staring at these guys, while they're going "OMG THIS IS INSANITY!" Yeah, an empty plastic bottle just got thrown at you by a 13-year old. INSANITY! Then later on the MUUUUSLIMS start throwing empty soda cans and bottles, and the guys on-tape start going OW and shit really loudly. Yeah, I bet that really hurt, and you totally aren't just trying to sound really injured for appearance's sake... too bad we can see the empty can bouncing on the ground!

    Thirdly, I haven't actually seen any "stoning" yet at 10 minutes in. Uhhh ok so one of the guys says he was hit on the head by a piece of concrete... of course, it occurred off-camera! How convenient!

    Fourthly, it's amazing how they seem to be careful in not showing what's actually on their signs. Huh.... now why would they do that?

    Honestly, most of the video is just people standing around staring and yelling at them angrily. Oh noes! MUSLIM AMERICA!

    OMG the best part ever is at 8:40. Local news is interviewing the guy, and they ask him "Do you think you're being provocative?" And he responds, "No, I think this religion is being provocative. I think when they chop people's heads off, that's provocative."

    Yes, because going into an Arab Festival with signs that say "MUSLIMS WILL END IN A LAKE OF FIRE" and yelling on a megaphone about Jesus Christ being the only true prophet or some shit isn't provocative! And clearly, these Muslims are chopping their heads off... oh no wait no they aren't. o_O Truly this man lives in bizarro world.
    Tylonius, mdman1, VJ and 13 others like this.
  18. Turning up to preach at an Arab festival that Muslims are going to hell is at the very least rude and insulting.It would be like burning the flag outside a passing out parade.Sure you have the freedom to do it,but,common sense and basic manners should tell you shouldn't do it.
    At least no one decided to stand their ground;).Cops are their to preserve the peace if you turn up to annoy the crowd they will probably remove you for your own good.
    Got to clear up after the locals stoned an ied team to death in Basrah not a pleasant way to go.They would piss them selves laughing if that crowd was supposed to be an Angry Arab mob that's a slightly miffed at best.
  19. Phantom Llama Absurd

    List of spacebattlers who would be up in arms if the phelps gang were driven off with empty bottles and cans:







    It was, it was driven off with a hail of projectiles.
    Tylonius, Robotninja, FBH and 2 others like this.
  20. Phantom Llama Absurd

    Those Muslims are so thin-skinned, I mean what possible reason could a group of American Muslims have to feel persecuted and react badly to abuse.
  21. Are you telling me that you are okay with an America where Muslims are allowed to get frustrated at Christians waving offensive signs and saying that they will burn in hell forever and that their entire belief system is a lie? And that these Muslims are then able to get upset and respond with, at worst, harassing words and mild violence without getting immediately arrested?

    Because that's not an America I want my hypothetical children to grow up in.
  22. Minohtar Advocatus Diaboli

    So, later on in the video the protestors totally get owned by one of the cops. The protestors are arguing with him, and one of them says "You're here to protect our rights!" And the cop responds, "No, I'm here to protect everybody's rights."

    ZING!

    The same cop also mentions that he was in the crowd stopping people. So uh yeah, so much for "No police response!!!" I guess. He also mentions that one of his officers and someone in the crowd was injured... hmm, maybe the protesters weren't so innocent as they tried to edit their tapes to appear?

    EDIT: upon further investigation, the tape editing was done by United West, who were not the people that actually filmed or participated in this encounter. So any poor editing wouldn't be their responsibility.
  23. confusopoly Arguably sane

    Ok, I'll concede because I haven't watched the video and going by the content of the post instead (beginner's mistake, I know). I still don't agree with throwing things at people, but empty plastic bottles and cans is very different from rocks.

    Other things I missed by not watching the video:
    - It was an Arab Festival.
    - The theatrical "Ow"
    - 13-year olds were most of the ones throwing stuff
    - etc.

    In that situation and with the small police presence I'm in favor of making the protesters leave, prevention of casualties comes first. I really hate violence as a response to speech though, no matter how blatantly provocative and dickish that speech is. So with enough police I'd still say: shield wall and have them back up out of throwing range.

    I'd have preferred a solution like this though: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/07/22/super-heroes-vs-the-westboro-baptist-church/

    Lesson learned: Don't respond to a video post from work where I can't watch the video.
  24. Minohtar Advocatus Diaboli

    Ok, having finished the video one of the guys is bleeding from the forehead... a little bit. Nobody else appears to be injured, though.

    I found the entire, uncut video as well... but it's more than an hour long and I haven't eaten breakfast yet, so I'm certainly not going to watch it now... maybe later though.



    ...oh hey, and it turns out they're into gay-baiting as well. Nice guys all around!

  25. Nooj leben ohne warum

    oh god, now i'm imagining the agents provacateurs trying this in iraq or afghanistan...

    they're just lucky they did it to american arabs.
    higbvuyb likes this.

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