SB in Dragon Pass IC-thread [Empire Builder]

This is the IC thread for the game of Dragon Pass. Only people participating in the game may post here. Peanut gallery, if you have suggestions or comments, please use the OC-thread found here, thank you.

Updates can be found collected to a single thread.

Clan Ring:
Berzerker
Brain_Caster
Vizzi
Darkandus
AceRaptor
HecateGW
DIT_grue
Lilithium

Wait List / Reserve Spots:
Necron_Lord
Dxnatta

So, here is the task of choosing your clan history. It's big, I admit. But if possible, do not do this by merely voting and leaving. Instead, as these choices will have meaning to your clan, try to plan and discuss things out a little. This determines greatly your starting conditions, and the effects of potential particular events and results.

--

Orlanth, King Of Gods, King of Storm Tribe and the chief of Lightbringers is the ruler of your pantheon. But he is not the only major deity and like all gods, they too have a history and their myths and legends. One of the earliest of these is the joining of Storm Tribe and Earth Tribe, when Orlanth married Ernalda, the Earth Mother. Through this sacret bonding, a fundamental harmony was created. Your clan's ancestors were among those present in this wedding between deities, following the lead and example of their first and foremost deity both then and now.

[ ]They drank and sang with Orlanth, as they had many times before. Orlanth led them, Orlanth protected them and Orlanth they swore to always follow even beyond his position as King.
[ ]Always had they consider Elmal to be closest to their hearts, and so alongside him, they donned gleaming armor and stood guard for the wedding against Orlanth's many enemies.
[ ]It is the men that fight, but the women who keep the home. Without women and the bountiful harvest of Earth, there is nothing to fight for. Your clan's men celebrated from afar, while the women learned the secret List Of Names from Ernalda as gift of being her bridesmaids.

Storm Tribe, allied with other gods of Earth Tribe, struggled to remake the world and ensure prosperity for their followers. However, almost always by their side where the clans of your ancestors. At times, they even without guidance lept forward to do great deeds to help the hard-pressed Orlanth. Your ancestors partook in many of these events both before and during the Storm Age, but their most prideful moment and best remembered story is about

[ ]The Hundred Day Hunt. When Odayla tracked the Sky Bear, they partook in the hunt.
[ ]Jesled's Settlement. When Issaries the Talking outwitted several foreign deities in a difficult negotiation, they were there listening to his arguments and helping him come up with new ones.
[ ]The Refuge. Ernalda and your clan women hid from the Scalding Waters seeking to burn her.
[ ]The Marking. Lhankor Mhy discovered writing and your clan helped inspire him design and write the first runes.
[ ]The Undefeated Shield. As Orlanth departed for the Lightbringer's quest, they stayed behind and helped Elmal defend Orlanth's stead against his terrible enemies.
[ ]The Resheating. When Humakt had been given Death, he severed ties to Orlanth, only to later come to a new agreement in the underworld. Your clan was the first among mortals to honour the pact made between gods.
[ ]Battle Of Stormfall. With bravery and lives, they cleared a path through the armies of chaos for Urox to pass unhindered, allowing him to slay the Chaos god Vostool.
[ ]The Drowning. After Orlanth had slain Aroka the Dragon, they helped him break down the earthen walls containing the lake of his blood, thus drowning the remains of the hostile Fire Tribe and creating the Arokan Sea.

After the world was remade, began the golden era known as Storm Age. Followers of Orlanth prospered, and many forms of competitive sports and events came to be in order to appease the stormy nature of Orlanth. For without battle he was restless, and he knew that peace must not dull the blade even when sheathed. But not all mortals were so fortunate. The defeated people of enemy tribes remained, and many were given to your ancestors care to do as they saw fit. You...

[ ]Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.
[ ]Adopted them reluctantly. Your ancestors gave them the barest of land and made sure they toiled hard to earn a proper place within the clan. Only Orlanthi, in deed and temperament, could be respected.
[ ]Took them as thralls. They weren't Orlanthi, and so it was your ancestors right as their conquerors to keep them as slaves.
[ ]Slaughtered them on the spot. They were enemies and followers of foreign gods, and nothing good could come of associating with them.

While the worst foes of Storm Tribe were gone, many new were found. Orlanth's blade tasted flesh once again, and your clan was there fighting with him. But specifically your ancestors took an oath to forever fight against the...

[ ]Trolls and their lord Boztakang.
[ ]The terrifying Beastmen.
[ ]The Elves and strange plant-folk allied with them.
[ ]Praxians from the Flat Lands, and anyone following their hero Tada The Green.
[ ]Faralinthor, the Salty and Vengeful Lord of the Seas.
[ ]Ice demons, and their lords in the Ice Tribe.

When the Storm Age was ended by the coming of Chaos, the world suffered for Chaos was not of it. Many clans perished and so did many gods. In Storm Tribe however, most of the gods were asleep at the end of bitter fighting that had left the world ruined but still whole. However, the Realm Of Gods had forever been separated from the Realm Of Mortals. When the time of rebuilding came, the tattered remains of clans understood that they could not reach their former glory without the aid of the gods. So, the first priests and priestesses begun to contact and awaken the gods to a new dawn. Your clan's first efforts were in awakening...

[ ]No one. Your ancestors and ancient spirit-friends were enough.
[ ]No one. For we trusted the protection of Elmal, one of the few gods already awake.
[ ]No one. For Urox was never brought low by Chaos and was already awake.
[ ]No one. For Odayla was already awake and back to his hunting.
[ ]Orlanth, so that the King could return to his hall and direct the efforts.
[ ]Ernalda, so that the bountiful harvests would help feed the starving clans.
[ ]Humakt, so that the wandering undead could be destroyed and their souls know rest.
[ ]Issaries, so that trade could continue and old grievances be put to rest in favour of cooperation.
[ ]Lhankor Mhy, so that old legends, stories and deeds from Storm Age would not be forgotten.
[ ]Chalana Arroy, for her skills at healing were sorely needed.

Around 400 years ago when the recovery from the end of Storm Age was already in distant past, many Orlanthian clans were approached by dragons. So were your ancestors. The dragons used to be usually hostile or at best, uncaring of the affairs of men. Orlanth had slain many dragons during his time and travels on the land and was widely called the Dragon Killer. However, this time the dragons appeared non-confrontational and told the clans that with the coming of Chaos centuries earlier, old pacts had changed and certain traditions now needed to match the separation of divine from mortal. They sought to build a tribe of dragons and men, promising knowledge and protection in exchange of feeding them with livestock and harvest. Many clans left with them towards Dragon Pass where the dragons and their lesser cousins roamed. For a long while all seemed as promised, even when several clans remained highly scpetical of the dragons motives.

But then, the clans of Heortland, having not heard of anything from their cousins for decades, assumed the worst. Orlanth had been the dragon slayer, and they would emulate him. A might army was assembled, seeking to kill the dragonewts and their eggs at Dragon's Eye within Dragon Pass as retaliation for deceiving their Orlanthian kin and leading them to their doom so long ago - as was assumed. Hundreds of the dragon's lesser kin were slain and even a true dragon was killed, but the rest went mad, or returned to their old ways of slaughter and indifference in equal measure. Every human in Dragon Pass suffered that day. The invading army was decimated almost to the last, and the few clans still living in dragon pass fled the suddenly rampaging dragons. This event, known as Dragonkill, happened two hundred years ago and scoured Dragon Pass clean of humans. Your ancestors...

[ ]Were among those first fleeing their homes in Dragon Pass and running back to Heortland, as their dragonic friends and at times, hostile raiders, went mad with grief and fury.
[ ]Were at the forefront of the invading army, seeking to kill the no-good dragons.
[ ]Were safe at Heortland, having not left in the first place either as part of the migration nor as parts of the war host.

Two more centuries pass with your clan living, fighting, loving and dying in Heortland in true Orlanthi fashion. Nineteen years ago however, in 1330 of the Second Age, your clan was part of another migration to the Dragon Pass, or as it is also known, Kerofinela according to the huge mountaintop Kero Fin found there. The lands are untamed, and hold promises of fame, glory and riches for anyone strong enough to take them. As Orlanthi, how could you refuse such a challenge? You clan were not among the first clans to repopulate the Pass after Dragonkill, but certainly counted among the early comers. Only a handful of clans had arrived before this migration, which in itself was composed of a dozen clans.

Most of the clans settled on and near the foothills around the Quivin Mountain, east of the marsh between it and the mighty Kero Fin. Your clan did not go too far from the Quivin either, and finally settled at...?

[ ] location, within or around the lower right quarter of the map provided ( somewhere around at most 150 km from Quivin Mountain).

When the troubles for your clan began, and the first leans years threatened to result in starvation, their first attempts at acquiring more food for the clan were mostly...

[ ]Trading goods for food
[ ]Raiding rival clans
[ ]Selling your clan Treasures
[ ]Ensuring the well-being of the fields and favour of Ernalda.
[ ]Dramatically increasing the number of hunting parties in nearby forests.

When the giant drought of 15 years past hit the clans of the Pass and showed little signs of abating for several years, your clan...

[ ]Attempted a heroquest, for your own benefit only.
[ ]Gathered support from other clans for a combined heroquest of common good.
[ ]Aided another clan in a heroquest.
[ ]Sacrificied greatly to Ernalda and Orlanth, for fertile fields and rain.
[ ]Demanded food and cattle from others, by calling in favours owed to your clan by others.
[ ]Trusted your ancestors and clan magics to see you through.

Seven years ago, among the great troubles affecting your clans, you fought against a major raiding force of a clan you're feuding with. After a prolonged battle and a multitude of dead kinsmen, your men lay defeated among the burning steads and houses. The major reason for your loss was...

[ ]The enemy clan had a mighty Treasure to help their forces.
[ ]Your fighting strenght had been expended in raiding others.
[ ]Orlanth and Humakt were severely displeased with you.
[ ]The raiders outnumbered you severely because they were from a hostile tribe: a collection of multiple clans acting together.

Now things are dire.

Your ancestors have not been honored with proper sacrificies, your few shrines and temples to gods lay all but abandoned. The forests around your clan are infested with disease spirits, carrion eaters and rodents - hunting is poor. Your traders are having no luck peddling your crafts and your reputation among other clans is in the mud. Your fields are in poor condition, you have almost no horses, your herds of sheep and pig are at an all-time low and you have less cows than you have children. Your weaponthanes, only two surviving of them, are more adept at drinking themselves silly than fighting. Your carls and cottars have a hard time plowing and maintaining sufficient number of fields to crow your crops in.

It is the year 1349, and now your clan looks up to you to perform a series of veritable miracles, and to take prompt action to save the clan called...

[ ]The name of your clan?

[X]Always had they consider Elmal to be closest to their hearts, and so alongside him, they donned gleaming armor and stood guard for the wedding against Orlanth's many enemies.

Seems good and honorable to me.

[X]Battle Of Stormfall. With bravery and lives, they cleared a path through the armies of chaos for Urox to pass unhindered, allowing him to slay the Chaos god Vostool.

I may be a bit biased as a follower of Urox, but this seems like an awesome thing to be part of.

[X]Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.

They may have lost to us, but that does not mean they all deserve to die.

[X]Ice demons, and their lords in the Ice Tribe.

Ugh, demon scum.

[X]Orlanth, so that the King could return to his hall and direct the efforts.

Leadership is important.

[X]Were among those first fleeing their homes in Dragon Pass and running back to Heortland, as their dragonic friends and at times, hostile raiders, went mad with grief and fury.

We belong in these lands.

[X]Trading goods for food

Trade can be useful.

[X]Gathered support from other clans for a combined heroquest of common good.

Better chance of succeeding.

[X]The enemy clan had a mighty Treasure to help their forces.

We may be able to obtain it later.

[]The name of your clan?

No idea at the moment.

I think what our choices should be strongly depends on what we want to achieve, so maybe we should decide on our strategical objectives before choosing any specific path for our clan.

Do we want to achieve supremacy over Dragon's Pass and unite the other clans under our banner? Then we should favor Orlanth, who is after all the chief deity. Do we want to become a ferocious clan of raiders and warriors, fearsome in battle, and without the encumbrance of political leadership? The gods of war it is! Do we simply want to survive, and once again grow prosperous? There's gods for that too, like Chalana Arroy, a.k.a "the least assholish of all the gods and godesses". (At least if the LP I read is to be believed)

And, dare I say it, do we want to do the unthinkable and break with the old Orlanthi ways and traditions, instead going for the typical morally-and-doctrinally-flexible-in-a-slightly-schizophrene-manner SB-style realpolitic? In that case we better have a backstory that emphasizes our clans self-reliance and depending on the spirits of our ancestors instead of gods, for without some extraordinary circumstances I don't think our supernatural patrons will be very helpful otherwise. (Note that I strongly suspect this is going to be hard-mode, so don't misunderstand me)

[X]Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.

It's both the right and the smart thing to do. If we want to replenish our numbers, we'll have to be good at assimilating people from outside the clan.

[x]Were safe at Heortland, having not left in the first place either as part of the migration nor as parts of the war host.

Being "friends" with creatures following blue and orange morality seems exceptionally foolish. Making war on them unnecessarily and subsequently being eaten even more so. Be wary of dragons, but do not let hate cloud your reason.

[x] Location: Unimportant.

You see, I believe that given the terrible state of our clan, and the fact that the OP states that we're currently being slowly ground to dust by raids from feuding clans, I believe that our first act should be to pack up and leave to set up shop somewhere at least moderately safe. As such, our starting location doesn't matter much.

[X]They drank and sang with Orlanth, as they had many times before. Orlanth led them, Orlanth protected them and Orlanth they swore to always follow even beyond his position as King.

Seems appropriate.

[X]Battle Of Stormfall. With bravery and lives, they cleared a path through the armies of chaos for Urox to pass unhindered, allowing him to slay the Chaos god Vostool.

The clan always fought Chaos in all its forms, Ortossi is merely the last of a long line of people that were affected by Chaos, and choose to hunt it.

[X]Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.

For they were our brothers, while not in blood, they could be so in actions.

[x]The terrifying Beastmen.

Death to the servants of Chaos

[X]Orlanth, so that the King could return to his hall and direct the efforts.

For he is the one we swore to serve.

[ ]Were among those first fleeing their homes in Dragon Pass and running back to Heortland, as their dragonic friends and at times, hostile raiders, went mad with grief and fury.

Sadly, we could not prevent such senseless slaughter, although if it was beastmen, we would have joined.

[X] Location

At the mouth of the valley in the right of Quivin Mountain.

[X]Dramatically increasing the number of hunting parties in nearby forests.

Hunters were always present, for who better to find the beastmen.

[X]Trusted your ancestors and clan magics to see you through.

Trust in ourselves, is important, although if the times were truly dire, then other measures would be attempted.

[X]The enemy clan had a mighty Treasure to help their forces.

We would remember such, and in time we would have our vengeance.

[ ]The name of your clan?

Naledar?

[ ]They drank and sang with Orlanth, as they had many times before. Orlanth led them, Orlanth protected them and Orlanth they swore to always follow even beyond his position as King.

What else should the warriors and heroes of the Orlanthi do? We bear his name, we follow his example.



[ ]The Undefeated Shield. As Orlanth departed for the Lightbringer's quest, they stayed behind and helped Elmal defend Orlanth's stead against his terrible enemies.

OR

[ ]The Resheathing. When Humakt had been given Death, he severed ties to Orlanth, only to later come to a new agreement in the underworld. Your clan was the first among mortals to honour the pact made between gods.

Staying behind to stave off the foe would certainly be noble, and the favor of Elmal could be worth a great deal. The Loyal Thane can help us defend our home if we pray and sacrifice to him, and it seems like that's exactly the kind of help we need.

Urox. . . I don't favor. Yes, his magic and the aid of Storm Bull Berserkers can be useful if chaos is present, but Berserkers are commonly outcasts, for the excellent reason that, well, Urox is an extremely violent, suspicious, and unruly patron deity. If we want aid in warfare, it would be better to turn to Humakt, whose followers commonly emphasize soldierly virtues much, much more than Uroxi do.

And since Humakt is the god of Truth as well as Death, he can also help us in some noncombat situations.



[ ]Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.

Making friends is usually more valuable than making enemies, rebels, or corpses.



[ ]The Elves and strange plant-folk allied with them.

All of the listed enemies are, frankly, frightening and dangerous. However, so long as we don't delve into the mountains we aren't likely to draw the attention of many trolls, we're a fair ways from Prax or the ocean, and out of the others Elves are the worst combination; reasonably likely to become a problem, and utterly unconcerned with reasoning, negotiation, or bribery. Beastmen aren't necessarily Chaos-worshippers, so they can often be dealt with by some method short of murdering absolutely all of them, and ice demons aren't likely to be a huge problem here. Elves, though, give no fucks whatsoever about humanity.

Also, dryads will trick young men into sleeping with them, and then plant fast-growing murder-vines inside them. Bitches.


[ ]Orlanth, so that the King could return to his hall and direct the efforts.

For one thing, well, he's Orlanth and we're Orlanthi; on a more practical and less mystical note, Orlanth is the god whose favor is most important if we want to become important and influential, since he's associated with kingship and authority. The fact that he can grant us the power to smite our enemies with thunderbolts is also a nice benefit.


[ ]Were at the forefront of the invading army, seeking to kill the no-good dragons.

OR

[ ]Were safe at Heortland, having not left in the first place either as part of the migration nor as parts of the war host.

Either of these work, but not the first option. We were not friends with the dragons. Dragons and dragonewts are Orlanth's enemies, and generally treacherous lizard-like scum.



[ ] Location; south-southwest of Quivin Mountain, in the fork of the two rivers that lie between Quivin and the southernmost range of hills.

Fertile, well-watered farmland, and it looks relatively easy to defend (assuming those rivers aren't just crossable on foot, anyway). A good place to start; and picking a good location IS important, because it's simply not that easy to pack up several hundred people with their livestock and possessions and move somewhere else, particularly not since we know that we have enemies in the area. We should plan to hold on to what we start with; if we're forced out later, so be it, but that's something to be avoided if at all possible.


[ ]Trading goods for food

OR

[ ]Raiding rival clans

These two seem the best to me; one will presumably make us a little more diplomatic, the other a little more warlike. Either are perfectly valid, normal paths for an Orlanthi clan to take, and will be useful. Sacrificing to Ernalda or hunting more could also be reasonable options, but I'm definitely going to anti-vote selling clan treasures. Those kinds of things are far too valuable to sell in any but the very most dire of situations.



[ ]Gathered support from other clans for a combined heroquest of common good.

Once again, leadership. We should be working right from the start towards the ultimate goal of ending up as Big Cheese of Dragon Pass, and experience dealing with the various clans will be valuable in that effort.


[ ]The enemy clan had a mighty Treasure to help their forces.

Most of these would be acceptable options, honestly, but I think this one does the least damage. We do NOT want to start the game with Orlanth and Humakt both pissed off at us, we don't want to start with a decimated population, and beginning with a hostile coalition nearby would be. . . dangerous. Plus, Treasures can be stolen, so if we swing it right we might actually get something positive out of this choice.



[ ]The name of your clan; Teghori. No particular reason, I just think it sounds good.

Since I'm hoping to participate in discussion before finalising my votes, I haven't used the [x] convention, just singled out the options I'm currently favouring.

Elmal, Lhankor Mhy and Odayla are the only gods who don't have a follower on the Clan Ring, and Orlanth is the only one with two. In the first choice, for instance, it would be... unusual... for none of the worshipers of the clan's "first and foremost deity" to be represented, even in these extreme circumstances. But we should probably think about whether they can/should be honoured in some of the later questions. My own first inclination would be to back Ernalda in this one.

[ ] It is the men that fight, but the women who keep the home. Without women and the bountiful harvest of Earth, there is nothing to fight for. Your clan's men celebrated from afar, while the women learned the secret List Of Names from Ernalda as gift of being her bridesmaids.

We have three fighters in the ring, which could be made to argue either for or against the Elmal option here, and likewise there are a couple of us using runic magic, who presumably offer at least a nod to Lhankor Mhy, and on the other hand could benefit from greater favour. But unless we want to be extremely specialised, I think it should go to one of the three unrepresented gods.

[ ]The Hundred Day Hunt. When Odayla tracked the Sky Bear, they partook in the hunt.
[ ]The Marking. Lhankor Mhy discovered writing and your clan helped inspire him design and write the first runes.
[ ]The Undefeated Shield. As Orlanth departed for the Lightbringer's quest, they stayed behind and helped Elmal defend Orlanth's stead against his terrible enemies.

I strongly recommend the first of this option set. Presumably it has some balancing drawback - lack of piety? - but even if it doesn't offer better population or anything at the start, it should make it much easier to integrate other clans once we start expanding. Besides which, I like the society it suggests much better (and at least they gave them sheep, not cows ).

[ ]Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.

Trolls and Beastmen were mentioned as hazards of the area. Any reason not to take one of them as a favoured foe?

[ ]Trolls and their lord Boztakang.
[ ]The terrifying Beastmen.

I'm not sure whether the 'wake someone/wake no one' dichotomy in this question has an additional effect in addition to the choice of an individual god. The first option is presumably proud independence, and might reduce reliance on gods in general, but also make them less likely to help. I'm inclined to go with Elmal here, and retroactively take him out of consideration in the earlier 'great deeds' one.

[ ]No one. For we trusted the protection of Elmal, one of the few gods already awake.

Hoo boy. Well... the first might give us old claims here? And the third hopefully doesn't have extra feuds attached. I suppose the second is if we want to be good at killing dragons and the like.

[ ]Were among those first fleeing their homes in Dragon Pass and running back to Heortland, as their dragonic friends and at times, hostile raiders, went mad with grief and fury.
[ ]Were safe at Heortland, having not left in the first place either as part of the migration nor as parts of the war host.

Not easy to described specific spots. Oh well. Anyone have any idea if there are particular features not obvious on the map? I'm guessing that the brownish/greenish colours are foothills/valleys, that the major river system flows through the central zone of the Pass, emptying back towards Heortland - or possibly the (civilised empire?), with Heortland being ~ESE past Quivin? (No, strike that last, the clans are described as settling between the marsh and Quivin, so they almost certainly came up the river.)

Question: To what extent is the marsh navigable and/or crossable, if at all?

As to desirable features, river access would be nice, especially if it's navigable. Being on the edges of the Pass probably leads to greater pressure from external societies and/or new migrants. Being adjacent to unpeopled areas probably means more encroachment by Beastmen and other hazards. Being on hills should help defence, but would likewise tend to hinder farming and travel; being surrounded by hills might be a defensible position or an invitation to ambushes and raiding. I'm not sure our clan is large enough to hold one of the larger valleys, and while a small area on a headwater somewhere might be more defensible, it would also make us easier to isolate.

[ ] How about - there's an arc of foothills that goes west, then curves back to end just south of the 'tip' of the NE major river, with a higher knob just behind a small valley with a tributary (creek?). Why don't we take that little valley, and if we have the strength it shouldn't be too hard to claim at least all the way out to the river.

I don't see any advantage to selling Treasures, and hunting parties - well, I'd only think that was a good idea if we were specialising in it fairly strongly. Raiding is the martial choice, but definitely not my first impulse. I favour trading, but farming would be almost as good.

[ ]Trading goods for food
[ ]Ensuring the well-being of the fields and favour of Ernalda.

I support either of the cooperative heroquest options. If we led one that failed, that can't have done our PR much good, though.

[ ]Gathered support from other clans for a combined heroquest of common good.
[ ]Aided another clan in a heroquest.

Well, unless the vote is considerably more martial than my arguments so far, we shouldn't have expended our strength. I'm not at all sure that I like the idea of having gods "severely displeased" with us, but if we could placate them it might go a long way to solving our problems. I suppose the disadvantage of the other two choices (much like the displeased gods) is that we'll have to deal with them now we're in charge. Probably be easier to ally with (or perhaps steal from?) a single clan, though; I think I like the first option best.

[ ]The enemy clan had a mighty Treasure to help their forces.
[ ]The raiders outnumbered you severely because they were from a hostile tribe: a collection of multiple clans acting together.

Oh, help. I don't know - anyone got a good idea for a name?


EDIT: Brain_Caster is persuasive both on 'befriending' dragons and on the benefits of picking up stakes. On the other hand, my suggested location might not be a bad place to leave from, either. And of the two names suggested so far, I like 'Silverhelm' - any other suggestions?
EDIT2: Teghori could be a good name. And it looks like trying to balance out tribal devotion to various gods, maybe play their requirements off against each other, is a bad/difficult/unpopular idea? And it seems that I misremembered seeing trolls specifically mentioned, so drop that one from my argument; are the elves really likely to be in our way?

All the gods are important, and it's valuable to have some kind of connection to all of them. But I don't think it's really possible to "play their requirements off against each other", and focusing the majority of our worship/attention on one or two related deities, while propitiating the others when it seems necessary or wise to do so, will probably bring greater (or at least more concentrated and thus more effective) benefits.

As for the elves; Gloranthan elves are not traditional fantasy elves. For that matter, Gloranthan trolls aren't quite stereotypical fantasy trolls either, but they're closer to the usual ideas than elves are. Gloranthan elves are sentient, mobile plant-men who act as the immune system of the forests by hunting down and killing invaders, particularly 'meat-men' like humans. They're just as dangerous as trolls are; more so, in many ways, because humans need to exploit the forests that elves live in more than they need to exploit the caves and underground areas that trolls tend to live in.

OOC: Before I make any choices, this will be my opening speech to the present day clan.


IC:

After having rounded up what remained of our clan in the courtyard (or what passed for a square), I proceeded to politely greet all of those who remained.

Once the formalities were over, I then moved to stand on a wooden stool and began my speech.


"I cannot even begin to express my sorrow for all the lives lost. Even if our loved ones may never be brought back, all within the clan can be certain that we, the councilors, will do everything in our power to stop this needless pain and suffering.

My fellow clansmen. I will not lie to you and say that our path back to greatness shall be an easy one. Niether will I say that it will be quick nor will it be painless.

*cough, cough* We have seen our beloved clan fall prey to forces, both external and internal. Whether it was from ineffictive leadership or aggression from neighboring marauders, it stops today.

I cannot guarantee that justice will be swift, only that justice will be inevitable for all those who have wronged us.

*cough* But first, we must rebuild before we can pursue the call to arms. It may seem an impossible task, but take heart for the deity ROB promised great change and change you shall have.

We will honor our ancestors and the divine once more for we fell astray from the path that led us to Dragon Pass and the hope of a better future. We will limit and, eventually, drive out the spirits that have plagued our forests, our land, and our people and see our clan prosper once more. We will make good harvests and raise strong livestock so that our children and our children's children shall never have to know such desparing hunger again.

*cough, cough* Look at me. I may not be of strong health and I may be the only woman in the council, but do not ever doubt that I possess the heart of the bravest of men and the will of the fiercest of warriors. I will stand by your side and struggle against all those who would see our clan disapper in the annals of history.

*pause to look into the eyes of all in the crowd*

It is no doubt that all of you shall see me more of myself throughout the village than any of us would like in the coming days, but we have a clan to save.

Let's get to work."

Greenish areas are lowlands, generally speaking more forested and better farmland. The brownish areas are mountainous. Forested and fertile, but harder to plow, and might contain caves and such. Actual mountain ranges are marked with the symbols. These are generally speaking passable areas for travel, or at least contain some ways through them, but are unsuited for settlement by humans.

Kero Fin by the way, is a tad over 12km tall. There's a reason it's considered the home of Moutnain Goddess Kerofin, Orlanth's mother.

The marsh is crossable, though it is slow to do so. Trade carts will experience more difficulty than walking men, and might often get bogged down or have a wheel swallowed. If there are roads or routes going through it, they're known only to beastmen or other indigenous groups to the Pass.

And most of the other clans are settled around Quivin Mountain, from SE, S, SW, W, NW and N. Most clans are concentrated on the S - NW area. There are a few of the more isolationist ones in E, but otherwise they're empty. No clan lies beyond 100km of the Quivin peak.

An attempt to visualize what SakSak just described:

The red zone is the most densely populated (well, "densely" by local standards) area. Yellow is somewhat populated. Green is very thinly populated. Blue is empty.

SakSak, is this picture reasonably accurate?

Reasonably enough. The settled areas are slightly more weighted towards the east (think of an ellipsis as opposed to a circle), but it's close and accurate enough to give a good general idea of the situation.

Oh, and of note: The Colymar Tribe, the only tribe currently in existance in Dragon Pass, inhabits roughly the entirety of the northern third of the red area.

Considering the divided areas, my location would be the mouth of the valley in the blue area.

Also props Brain.

Okay, that makes sense.

Yes, I found at least a mention of the plant-men that hate meat-men thing, even with a brief search. The 'immune system of the forests' bit didn't come up though, so I hadn't realised we were likely to be dealing with them much. Thanks for the help.

Thanks! Are the major rivers/minor rivers/marsh navigable for boats, maybe even barge traffic (ie. sufficiently deep and wide, with few or no breaks due to rapids/waterfalls/etc.)? Unless the magic's doing something pretty weird I haven't thought of, the existance of long-distance trade in anything but extremely valuable, highly portable items is going to depend on the availability of water transport, and it's always important for an army too, whether that's your's or your enemy's. Not that we're going to have an army, to worry about moving it, for quite a while. *rueful grimace*

Okay, from the discussion I've read so far, I'm thinking concentrate on Orlanth, let those of us who chose otherwise handle the side-issues, and aim for ruling Dragon Pass and the other clans.

(The second one could go to Orlanth as well, but I'm having difficulty grappling with what his is supposed to be about, partly because it seems fairly horrific, and I'm not sure I want that as a celebrated part of our history. Besides, diplomacy will be important to uniting the tribes, and I can use all the help I can get. )

[x] They drank and sang with Orlanth, as they had many times before. Orlanth led them, Orlanth protected them and Orlanth they swore to always follow even beyond his position as King.
[x] Jesled's Settlement. When Issaries the Talking outwitted several foreign deities in a difficult negotiation, they were there listening to his arguments and helping him come up with new ones.
[x] Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.
[x] The Elves and strange plant-folk allied with them.
[x] Orlanth, so that the King could return to his hall and direct the efforts.
[x] Were safe at Heortland, having not left in the first place either as part of the migration nor as parts of the war host.
[x] Considering what SakSak mentioned about where the clans are concentrated, how about that sort-of 'thumbs up'-shaped valley just to the NE of Quivin?
[x] Trading goods for food.
[x] Gathered support from other clans for a combined heroquest of common good.
[x] The enemy clan had a mighty Treasure to help their forces.
[x] Teghori.

Yeah, I'm with Vizzi on this one.

Also, had to check this one out for my self so that I do not speak BS and have to retcon things, so sorry for the wait. The Heortland lies to the south of the edge of the map, Prax lies to the South-East.

Here is a map of this part of wider Glorantha, specifically the northern continent (note the date! That's canon timeline a few centuries in the future)

http://www.stempest.demon.co.uk/glorantha/Images/Genertela1.gif

The map of dragon pass begins from around the city of Boldholme, slighty SE of it. the NW corner of the map is where it reads Holay, slightly north of Tarsh. In original canon timeline, Sartar (west of the wastelands) is the eventual kingdom formed by the Orlanthi tribes who settled around Quivin Mountain, if memory serves.

And yes, the minor rivers can be navigated by shallow barges. An army of medieval plate-mail soldiers would have to find a shallow crossing or construct a temporary bridge. That is, in most parts the minor rivers are anywhere between 1m to 3-4m in depth, deeper during floods. Width varies, from at places 5m to 15+ metres. That ought to give you a general idea.

Being the hardy Orlanthi that you are, and having long ago harnessed oxen to pull your carts, trade happens over land just fine. Waterways are commonly utilized where available, however.

A few things we should discuss:

What food sources will we mostly depend on? Growing crops (which probably has the greatest yield per area but means we're going to have to settle in a valley somewhere and will be tied to that place), or livestock, or hunting, or a balanced combination?


One advantage of herding animals and hunting would be that we're probably much more mobile, and that our hunters can also function as relatively competent skirmishers. One disadvantage would be that we'd need an exceptionally large tula to feed all our people.

--> Consequentially it would probably be advisable to move somewhere hilly with lots of room, and terrain well suited for defense. Also, we might want to avoid picking the elves as our sworn foes, since we'll probably not have need to clear lots of forest, and might therefore be able to simply avoid conflict with them - or possibly even persuade them to help us against our less environmentally friendly enemies. Oh, and we should consider picking suitable gods and goddesses to pray to.


If we choose to mostly rely on crops, we'll be a forest-destroying clan of valley dwellers. Conflict with elves is guaranteed, the way I see it. One advantage would be that we'd need to defend a smaller area. One disadvantage is that we'd have less strategic depth. And the elves will probably hate us no matter what we do.

--> Pick the elves as sworn foes, perhaps try to find a safe place sufficiently far away from other clans, perhaps try to surround ourselves with a ring of allies (on the other hand we start as an exceptionally small and weak clan, so that simply might not work - we'll be picked on and beaten up for our lunch money by everyone). Naturally, this should also affect our choice of gods.

The way I see it;

-Farming is a good 'staple', and no matter where we end up we're going to need to do at least some. If we're successful, the clan may well expand faster than our herds do and so we'll probably need a lot of basic foods; if we're not successful, other clans are going to steal our valuable cattle and other herd animals, and we won't be able to depend on them; either way, we will need at least a modicum of cropland. However, large-scale farming is quite vulnerable to enemy action, can have some unfortunate dietary consequences, and is more dependent on factors we can't control than the other options.

-Hunting can be a nice supplement, but for a group like ours it's not a long-term solution. We're a pastoral people, not nomads, so we can't follow migratory patterns, and we're a fairly large group (a few hundred, at least), which means that it would be easy for us to depopulate our local area if we depend too heavily on hunting. Do some hunting to supplement the diet, yes; it's a good way to stretch supplies, a traditional Orlanthi activity, and teaches valuable skills. But it should not be our primary or even secondary source of food.

-Herding has some of the advantages and disadvantages of both. Herd animals provide a reasonably wide variety of food and are a more renewable resource than hunting wild animals, but they also require a lot of land to care for and have a distressing tendency to be fragile. They synchronize well with farming because herd animals naturally produce fertilizer, but they also require a lot of water and are vulnerable to theft in a way that crops or hunting grounds are not. However, it should be taken into consideration that herd animals are wealth to the Orlanthi. Owning a lot of cattle has benefits that are not directly related to food production; large herds are prestigious and also serve as currency, facilitating trade and increasing the owner's status in the wider Orlanthi community.

All that being so, I think that we need to settle in a fertile area well-suited to farming but put the majority of our economic efforts towards accumulating and preserving large herds. That will help the clan grow and open up economic options (as well as religious ones, since sacrificing cattle is the traditional way to propitiate the gods).

We definitely need a good and stable supply of food if we are to see that our current population does not drop any further, outside of conflict and disease, and if we want a population boom, then we will most certainly need to look towards farming.

On the downside, as others have stated, we would be stationary and more vulnerable to repeated attacks from enemies due to our inability to just pick up and move on.

Hunting and gathering would likely be more of a supplement and a stopgap measure should our harvests not provide enough for our clan.

On the downside, hunting would also expose some of our members to being isolated from the clan and possibly kidnapped for ransom, as has been done in this clan's past, and maybe even killed which would result in an even smaller clan as we cannot afford to lose too many people at this stage of fragile rebuilding.

Herding would most certainly have mulitiple benefits as we can use such animals as currency, food from milk, fertilizer for enriching the soil, butchered for meat, and sacrifices to the gods for maybe some kind of minor blessings or minor favors.

Then again, we would definitely be dipping into some of our harvest supplies, more land than people to graze, and a safe, steady supply of water.

As for my character, she has a specialization in both animal and plant care, so, hopefully, she can provide some minor bonuses to the caring of both.

I agree with Berzerker that we need to invest in a good, fertile land as we need a good support base to start from and this will eventually lead to greater population, greater prosperity, and greater clan in the end.

Current Votes:

[4]They drank and sang with Orlanth, as they had many times before. Orlanth led them, Orlanth protected them and Orlanth they swore to always follow even beyond his position as King.
[1]Always had they consider Elmal to be closest to their hearts, and so alongside him, they donned gleaming armor and stood guard for the wedding against Orlanth's many enemies.

[1]Jesled's Settlement. When Issaries the Talking outwitted several foreign deities in a difficult negotiation, they were there listening to his arguments and helping him come up with new ones.
[BeRzErKeR*]The Resheating. When Humakt had been given Death, he severed ties to Orlanth, only to later come to a new agreement in the underworld. Your clan was the first among mortals to honour the pact made between gods.
[3]Battle Of Stormfall. With bravery and lives, they cleared a path through the armies of chaos for Urox to pass unhindered, allowing him to slay the Chaos god Vostool.

[6]Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.

[ ]Trolls and their lord Boztakang.
[2]The terrifying Beastmen.
[2]The Elves and strange plant-folk allied with them.
[1]Ice demons, and their lords in the Ice Tribe.

[5]Orlanth, so that the King could return to his hall and direct the efforts.

[3]Were among those first fleeing their homes in Dragon Pass and running back to Heortland, as their dragonic friends and at times, hostile raiders, went mad with grief and fury.
[3]Were safe at Heortland, having not left in the first place either as part of the migration nor as parts of the war host.

[2,BeRzErKeR*]Trading goods for food
[BeRzErKeR* ]Raiding rival clans
[2]Dramatically increasing the number of hunting parties in nearby forests.

[3]Gathered support from other clans for a combined heroquest of common good.
[2]Trusted your ancestors and clan magics to see you through.

[5]The enemy clan had a mighty Treasure to help their forces.


And on the location with fertile land, i would say either near the swamp or in the blue area, due to it having a river and being surrounded by mountains, its likely very fertile.

My votes:


[X]They drank and sang with Orlanth, as they had many times before. Orlanth led them, Orlanth protected them and Orlanth they swore to always follow even beyond his position as King.

[ ]The Undefeated Shield. As Orlanth departed for the Lightbringer's quest, they stayed behind and helped Elmal defend Orlanth's stead against his terrible enemies.

OR

[ ]The Resheathing. When Humakt had been given Death, he severed ties to Orlanth, only to later come to a new agreement in the underworld. Your clan was the first among mortals to honour the pact made between gods.

[x]Adopted them as family to your clan, your ancestors giving them land and sheep from your own herds. Orlanthi they might not have been, but Orlanthi they could become.

[X]The Elves and strange plant-folk allied with them.

[x] Humakt, so that the wandering undead could be destroyed and their souls know rest.
OR
[x]Orlanth, so that the King could return to his hall and direct the efforts.

[x]Were safe at Heortland, having not left in the first place either as part of the migration nor as parts of the war host.

[Location] East of Quivin Mountain, in a fertile stream valley. (Inside the green zone)
Let me elaborate on this - since our starting situation is going to be shitty, and surrounding clans mostly hostile, we want a place were there are a) not too many hostile clans in the immediate vicinity, and b) from were we can relocate into safer lands if things get too hot. From my proposed location, we should be able to traverse the relatively low mountain ranges to the northeast - with some effort, but going by what SakSak said it should definitely be possible - and settle in the fertile valley to the north. Then we would benefit from having the mountains between us and our old foes who used to kick the crap out of us - certainly, they will be just as capable of crossing over the mountains as we were, but it should still make raiding us much harder and less profitable. Since most clans raid primarily for the loot, that means they'll probably leave us alone.

[x]Dramatically increasing the number of hunting parties in nearby forests.
Because having skilled hunters is one of the few resources we will be able to immediately benefit from. Also, if we really do move north, we should be able to claim a disproportionally large tula with nobody to contest it around - perfect for hunting. And because I don't want to entirely min-max.

[x]Gathered support from other clans for a combined heroquest of common good.

[x]The enemy clan had a mighty Treasure to help their forces.

[Clan Name] Esberi
("Teghori" looks too much like "Telmori", which could prove annoying if we run into them)

So the choices with a clear majority are:
1- A
3- A
10- A

And on location i think everyone can agree with Brain_Caster.

Considering we are probably going to kill plenty of trees i can see a benefit to having the Elves as enemy's. I would rather we were cordial with Dragons (because they are scary Mofos). And on the combined heroquest i would also agree, although is sad they turned on us.

Esberi doesn't really do anything for me, any other name?

Aesberi? Spabatar? Corobi?

Vizzi, your vote count seems quite unreliable.

I'll go ahead and support Brain_Caster's choices, especially the location as we really need food.

Clan Esberi sounds good.