SB-SGA Redux!

I meant that we bring some modern ones with us, yes. ^^ Their are some really nice modern crossbows out there. If I thought we'd be sure to have the room I'd suggest bringing some hunting hounds with us as well, but I'm not sure on that.

Let's not bring a plane at all. It'd take too long to bring through the Stargate, and provide too little return on our investment, to justify loosing all the other equipment we'd be able to bring through instead.

Agreed.

Alright we'll drop the aircraft for now since what we would really need is the ability to manufacture our own ships if we wanted air superiority.

On the Crossbow idea, no it's a waste of time we have much more important things to do then hunt. While yes i want to be able to cut down on how much Atlantis was dependent on other worlds for food then it was in the show. Having something we want to trade for in the first place will help set up our spy network since the cover story for the traders would be authentic to a degree. There's also the simple fact that mingling with the other worlds and getting to know them is a good idea in the first place.

Oh yes, being utterly dependent on other people for food is suuuch a good idea. Not. We can trade for other things.. like metals and all that. You did see the statement we couldn't bring much mining gear through, right? And I'm sure everyone will be happy when they run out of bullets and can't fight any more.

Stargate Command managed to make friends and mingle with other worlds without being utterly dependent on them to survive, so can we.

And for that matter, don't forget to bring some fishing nets and rods with us. Fish are tasty. And instructions on how to make salt distilleries from seawater would be good. No point in bringing those as long as we have a lathe and some saws and such, we can make them on site, but salt is a very critical thing.

I second the salt and fishing nets/rods. Those'll be a big help.

I agree no aircraft. I'd say no ground craft either; the closest we have moved through are our drones. Again, we bring plans to make the tools to make the parts, you know?

My suggestion about a couple of hunting-oriented guns would still give us perfectly serviceable fighting weapons (perhaps for the civilian staff if it came to that). I think it's good to have multiple options for food. Diversity of nutrition is good, the ability to survive in the wild is good, etc.

EDIT: Oh, thirding the salt distillery and fishing equipment ideas.
Lord, we're gonna have so much crud to bring through...

Now there's something we could use immediately, the thing is that hunting fall into needless micromanagement we should see to finding more general names for what we want to bring and ask if more specific mentions would be required for certain equipment. Also face it we won't be able to bring everything we need or want so we need to ensure that we have what we can get to survive long enough until we can get a resupply from home.

I'll start writing the update, but I'm going to hold off posting until tomorrow this time or until Gothic posts his votes for tech. If you want to make any changes between now and then, go ahead.

You do have a point about micromanagement. I think some of us are just trying to toss out what ideas we can. Maybe we should get a revised list of what we're taking up.
Also, the talk of resupply and such is why I've been shouting about taking lots of data and plans with us.
Whoever mentioned textbooks had a good idea, but I do wonder if we could figure out a way to just print them there on Atlantis. Hm.

When it comes down to it, hunting guns might be better then crossbows but they still have the two issues I'm saying to take crossbows instead of. Ammo and gunpowder.

Crossbows don't take gunpowder, its as simple as that. Each shot done with a crossbow is a shot left to use in a fight. As for ammo.. even if a crossbow bolt breaks you can pick the head up again and put it on another piece of wood. Volla! New bolt. Making more bullets is alot harder, much less making a gunpowder factory. As well, crossbows are something we can trade with other people without giving up our advantage in guns. We can't really do that with fowling pieces. We can also make more crossbows, even if not as good as the ones we should be bringing with us.

Edit : Also! We should bring cotton seeds, and or hemp. Not just for clothing but so we can make strings and twine and such. We can make our own fishing nets in the long run with these, as well as patch our own clothing and have something to use those dye plants on. Being able to make our own bow/crossbow strings is a good thing too, and so is being able to make stitches string for the medics.

As far as I know, this is all the stuff we're taking. Most of this list is from AceRaptors post. Stuff italicized is directly quoted from a GM post If there's anything I missed, let me know.

Edit: updated as of post #124

People:

• 2 Tok'ra Advisors/Spyies/Healers
• Psychologists
• Diplomats
• Doctors and Nurses
• Scientists (geneticists/microbiologists, regular biologists, physicists, engineers, computer techs, linguists (must know ancient), etc; a good sampling from every major field)
• Administrators/Logistics people
• Soldiers (preferably spec-ops and qualified on Zats)
• People from the Army Corp of Engineers
• Agriculturalists/Farmers
• A workforce to operate the mining and manufacturing equipment.
• Make an effort to recruit people with the Ancient Gene.
• Try to get all civilians qualified on pistols and/or Zats.

Things to take with:

• Everything in AceRaptors post (Olive tree seeds, soap, lantern fuel, anvil/blacksmith tools, tallow, glow-sticks, diatomaceous earth, vitamins, activated charcoal, matches, caffeine pills, iodine, looms or knowledge of how to build one)
• Hard rives with a metric crapton of designs and textbooks and stuff, including information about how to get salt from seawater, agriculture/hydoponics info, manufacturing and mining info, and guides on how to rebuild civilization.
• 2 modified Predator drones w/ extra parts, instruction manuals, and several dozen Griffin air-to-ground missiles and six Hellfire anti-armor/emplacement air-to-ground missiles
• Naquadah reactors
• Two dozen Mark VIII 1.2 gigaton dial-a-yield Naquadah nukes
• Extra ammo, C-4, grenades, flashbangs, etc
• An old-style Kara'kresh ( On one of the Tok'ra )
• 6 Asgard comm stones
• Two crates of shock grenades ( 200 total )
• A case of Staff Weapons
• A Sarcophagi
• 2 Healing devices
• Tokra crystals
• Nirrti's cloak (only useable by Tok'ra)
• 6 Transphasic Eradication Rods (brought by Tok'Ra)
• Kull Armor
• Laptops and other computer equiptment, along with plenty of replacement parts.
• A significant medical database in electronic storage as well as equipment designed for re-use in field conditions
• Radios
• Batteries (rechargeable and able to hook up the the Naq. reactors)
• Solar panels
• All-weather gear
• Haz-mat suits
• Diving suits (Including hard suits) and Scuba Gear
• Camping equipment (tents, portable stoves, lanterns, water purification tablets, etc)
• Metals and jewelery for trade
• 12 months of food
• Seeds and hydroponics equipment
• Toiletries (toothpaste, body wash, dental floss, deoderant, etc.)
• Inflatable Rafts
• Fishing rods and nets
• Cotton seeds and hemp
• Entertainment for the troops (dvds, books, etc)
• A sort of enhanced SGC-built 3D printer that can build some Terran tech (nothing more mechanically or electrically complex than an AK-47) if it has very refined materials
• Digging tools
• Survey equipment
• Pepper plants

Dude your making us into a far too much of a freaking colony or trading outpost rather then expedition. The fishing and salt production makes sense because Atlantis is in the ocean so it's not hard to get those but hunting would require us to go to the mainland or though the stargate. Using the stargate for something so mundane is a waste of power and we need to have our transportation needs to be used as efficiently as possible. As for meat the chickens will do fine or if we feel the need to really spiff up a meal trade for some meat from a trade partner but we will mostly be supplementing our rations we got from home rather then trying to sustain ourselves on our own until we can get resupply then we make a push for complete self sufficient. Since then we would open up a lot of space on future resupplies or hell when we get there we trade for thing that could make us self sufficient if we forgot to bring something that would allow us to be self sufficient. Thing is we're not going to get a resupply from home for a while so we need to get thing that we would otherwise be unable to get without a connection to home.

Edit: I can't imagine how much the IOA would be on our asses if we called our selves a colony.

Phoenix: Ok, the Ford Explorer bit was an example not meant to be taken literally. My point was that we have plans for some sort of mostly-civilian vehicles that we can use for things like moving around planets with rough terrain, or hauling back loot.
Seriously, the random nature of it should have made it obvious I was picking an example out of thin air, and had forgotten what year Season 1 of Atlantis was set in.
My point is that detailed knowledge about how to build existing ground vehicles will make it easier to take those ideas and improve them with (as a totally random and in no way prescriptive example) a Naquadah power source. Or something like that.

EDIT: WV: Well, we can't rely on canon knowledge for how things will go down. We need to treat this as if we really were establishing a colony.

I was trying to make a joke.

Edit: I just went back and deleted the Ford reference.

This man speaks with great wisdom. Such wisdom is why I find your tech choices... interesting.

It is at times like these that I miss the :drevil: smilie.

See! See! THIS is why our first 5 research choices need to be the "infrastructure" ones! It's why we need to pack as much equipment, as many supplies, and as much knowledge as possible when we ram through that gate!

We need to act as if there won't be friendly forces for 2 parsecs in any direction, and that we won't have any support for at least a year.

If we want resupply from home, we're going to have to make darn sure we build up a way for that to happen (read: find ways to power the gate enough to do so, and to send through power systems for them to power the gate).

...And statements like this scare the ever-loving shit out of me!

Please, for the Gods' sakes, bring at least some steel crossbows! And definitely bring plans to make more using that 3D printer thing! Who knows what the power-crazed GMs are going to do to you lot, just you watch-

*is hauled away frothing and gibbering incoherently by GM police*

To quote the story linked earlier, it is a colony. We don't know when we are going to be resupplied. At all. This isn't a canon verse. Things are different. And even when we do, you want to use up cargo space on food? What the hell? We can't depend on getting more rations when we want them, we can't depend on our trading partners having enough extra food and or not being eaten by the space vampires. This is sustenance level societies here! Because the wraith kill everything else! That means they have really little extra food. Oftentimes none. And why the hell would we need to use a gate? The puddlejumpers can fly. We can eventually make a real old fashioned boat. And meanwhile we can trade weapons that are probably better then any native has to our friends without having to give up guns and ammo.

Until we have a reliable and easy way back this is a colony, and it doesn't matter what you want to call it. If we can't make it ourselves, we probably won't have it.

Edit : Ninjad, but in a way that proves my point, so I don't mind.

EditEdit : Forgot out of outrage at people thinking this isn't a colony, but you should bring pepper plants too. And Survey equipment. Which will be really nice for finding things like mines (natural gas or naquadah or iron, whatever) and for making bases anywhere else.

All wonderful and cogent points.

However, this brings to mind a question. When Atlantis rises, can we encourage the city to, idk, move closer to the mainland perhaps? It would shorten travel times and allow the expedition to exploit both the mainland's resources, plus the shallow waters which will support maritime wildlife (say, fish; perfect place for those you SHOULD bring!).

If y'all rescue the Athosians from the pilot (which I would recommend, they make good first allies), put the Athosians down on the mainland FIRST instead of allowing them to live inside the city, and this way they can hunt for you, and y'all can protect them with your Earth-tech. Heh, give them those steel crossbows you brought with you and teach them how to use and maintain them, and the Athosians (and any primitive peoples you trade these to) will just LOVE you...with one superior long-range weapon, you just quadruipled their food intake.

US Marine Recon and French Foreign Legion should be added to this.

Isn't hardcore wilderness stuff exactly what the French Foreign Legion does half the damn time (in between being awesome solders that is)? That experience alone would make them worthwhile...or am I talking out of my ass, and they got the same exp that most others have?

As for the People/Supply list, I agree on all counts, except I'm not sure if video cameras were included. Add them if not.

And I'm still holding out hope for Dr. Keller.

That is all.

Hum. In the theme of inviting more people, I'd support having at least one or two spooks along if only for counter-intelligence reasons. The French Foreign Legion is good, but really, we don't need super duper baddasses when it'll be a headache to get them all cleared and in on time. And aren't we bringing marines anyway? I thought those were the canon armed people around, mostly.. might have been a brain fart. Make sure we are bring along a good logistics officer too. And someone who knows how to farm, so we aren't just reading out of books.

Can we bring any army engineer corps people along?

I do think crossbows are a good idea. I wasn't thinking dozens and dozens of hunting firearms; maybe a dozen of them all told. Combination hunting gear and "civilian" (such as this expedition will have) self-defense weapons.
I would say we want to try to keep as few ammunition calibers/types as possible. So, no collection of 15 guns that all use slightly different bullets.
At most, we'd want maybe 5-6 kinds of ammo; 7.62, .45, 12 gauge, 9mm, .50, mabye 30.06 something like that. That gives us assault rifles, submachine guns, pistols, shotguns regular sniper rifles, and anti-material rifles. That's not a definitive list, mind. Just examples.

Special Forces should be Army Special Forces, Marine Recon, a few guys like SAS and such, MI5...Not sure about Foreign Legion (they seem solid, but not sure how they fit in the same dynamic).

Avatar: I think Atlantis is tethered by a docking station that provides at least some power via geothermals. A the very least it keeps it from just floating away without having to spend power for that.