Very very belated edit: I've tracked down all my old threads to make something of an index, since some of my old stuff came up for discussion... My original art thread My second thread First thread I made for the BFG cruiser My R-100 from R-type Final The start of this batch of warships Decided to start a new thread since my old one is looong gone from the first page - and a bunch of the stuff in it was ugly beyond belief... To recap, I've been working off and on on making spacegoing reinterpretations of various WWII warships, so far primarily US Navy cruisers and battleships. It's a work in progress - I'm still unhappy with the stern ends, as well as the engine/wing structures. I just can't seem to figure anything decent out for them... Anyway, here are the ships: USS Brooklyn (CL-40) The real-world Brooklyn-class was the first light cruiser designed to the inter-war treaty specifications, which limited cruisers to 10,000 tons and a maximum of 6.1-inch guns for light cruisers. Pretty much everything about these ships was new - the guns, the turrets, the hull itself, even the propulsion systems. Ironically, the Brooklyn-class ended up outliving all its later cousins - the lead ship of the class, having been transferred to the Chilean navy in 1951, served until 1992, and finally sunk in transit to the scrapyard. Another notable ship of the class was the Phoenix, which was transferred to Argentina and served as the General Belgrano until sunk off the Falklands in 1982. USS Atlanta (CL-51) The Atlanta-class was intended as destroyer flotilla leaders, but the large number of 5-inch guns made them more valuable as anti-aircraft escorts - no other class of ships could throw an anti-aircraft broadside as heavy as the Atlanta and her sisters. The five-inchers were moderately useless for surface targets though, as anything heavier than a destroyer could simply shrug the fire off. Of three cruisers lost by the US Navy in WWII, two were Atlantas, and both were lost to gunfire from Japanese cruisers a day apart. Still, they were valued enough by the US Navy that two more flights of four cruisers were built to slightly modified designs during the war. USS Cleveland (CL-55) The Cleveland-class has the distinction of being the largest group of gun cruisers ever built to a single design, with 27 completed during WWII. Several more were laid down, but were converted on their slipways to light carriers (the Independence class), to overcome a shortage due to losses in battle of several pre-war carriers. The Clevelands used more or less the same hull as the Brooklyn-class, but traded in one of the forward 6-inch turrets for a pair of twin 5-inch turrets, which doubled the anti-aircraft throw weight and set the standard for all future US gun cruisers. USS Baltimore (CA-68) The Baltimore-class was the primary heavy cruiser class of the USN in WWII, with 14 ships in total built during the war. Superficially, they were very similar to the Cleveland class, but built to a slightly larger hull, with heavier armor and three triple 8-inch turrets rather than the four triple six-inchers. Two were converted to missile cruisers during the cold war, but several served as gunfire support ships up until the 1970s. USS Oregon City (CA-122) The Oregon City-class was meant as an improved Baltimore-class, with a redesigned superstructure based on the Fargo-class light cruiser, which was supposed to improve the anti-aircraft fire arcs. Only three were built out of a dozen planned, with the first ship discarded in record time (it served only a year and some months before decommissioning), and the others converted into missile cruisers. USS Des Moines (CA-134) The Des Moines-class was the pinnacle of WWII warship design, twice as powerful as any other heavy cruiser ever built by virtue of its autoloading 8-inch guns which gave it double the rate of fire compared to the older manually loaded guns. While nearly all other warships under construction at the end of the war were cancelled and scrapped, three of the Des Moines-class were finished as designed, and served as gunfire support ships up through the Vietnam war. The ships missing from this list right now are the USS Fargo (CL-106), which has its turrets misaligned right now; the USS St Louis (CL-49), which is a superstructure mod of the Brooklyn; the USS Wichita (CA-45), forerunner of the Baltimores; USS Oakland (CL-95) and USS Juneau (CL-119), flight II/III Atlantas respectively; and the USS Worchester (CL-144), the intended successor of all US light cruisers, armed with six twin automatic six-inch guns. Please note that all of the images in this post were rendered from the same camera position relative to the ship, so it should be pretty easy to distinguish the relative sizes (there are only three hull forms in use as well...) I've also got a bunch of battleships, but all of those need some realignment work for the turrets as well, which will take a while (booooring....) Cheers, SP
Awesome. I LOVE the Space Is An Ocean feel! Now, here's my question, how is space combat faught and with what weapons in the 2nd Interstellar War?
That's a work in progress.. The current idea is that the smallest guns (the AA mounts) are akin to SW turbolasers, except shorter ranged since the blasts don't stick together too well. Really good for rapid fire, though. The larger guns (in the primary and secondary turrets) are rail guns, firing heavy penetrator slugs or explosive shells, both with some maneuvering capability. And the spinal/wingtip mounts are particle beams, with huge charge times but devastating effect on anything in front of the ships. The tactics are pretty much standard naval tactics, except in 3D. Broadsides are preferred - each ship here has between 18 and 30 main guns in its broadside, since it has guns both top and bottom, compared to twelve guns forward and between six and twelve aft. There would have been a carrier or three by now if I could figure out the hull form for them, but that's proving difficult right now. I can't come up with anything that looks good, for some reason. Fighters and bombers are unmanned, piloted by learning AI that back themselves up to their squadronmates during a mission. As long as even one craft survives, all the pilots will as well, to be reinstalled in new frames. Cloaking devices exist, but they're imperfect, if you go too fast you'll be detected. A torpedo is a big missile with a cloaking device. Regular missiles exist, but they're too stupid most of the time to outmaneuver a full AI fighter (and you don't put a full AI in a missile, they'd revolt!). I'll post some more ships tomorrow, I just need some time to get them ready first. (and some sleep before that...) Cheers, SP
Yup. A couple more ships to show off this time: USS Fargo (CL-106) The Fargo-class was basically an improved Cleveland, with the superstructure modified for better AA arcs and easier assembly. In addition, the flank turrets were lowered one deck to improve the center of gravity, making the ship more stable. Only two of these ships were finished, the rest were cancelled at the end of hostilities, and the ships didn't see service for very long. USS Alaska (CB-1) The Alaska-class were designed as cruiser killers, their mission being to hunt down and sink the "super cruisers" that the Japanese were rumored to be building for commerce raiding. To support this task, they were designed with brand new 12-inch guns, armored to protect against similar guns, and equipped with powerful machinery. Six of them were planned, but by the time the first one put to sea there simply weren't any Japanese (or German) cruisers left to sink, so the two that were actually finished spent most of their service as anti-aircraft escorts, a role they were pretty decent at with the comparatively huge battery of 40 mm guns they carried. Historians debate whether these ships should be called battlecruisers or not, but the US Navy refer to them as "large cruisers", and that's essentially what they are - they are more closely related to cruiser than battleships. USS Iowa (BB-61) The Iowa-class were the largest, and longest-serving ships built by the US during WWII, and are unique in that all the finished vessels are still preserved. Their 16", 50 caliber main guns were arguably the most powerful guns ever put on a ship, their long range and 1200kg projectiles giving the Iowas near mythical status as gunfire support ships, to the point where the Navy still can't sell off their remaining two ships even after nearly 20 years in mothballs (again)... I've got three more battleships coming, they need some care and attention before I can render decent pics of them (they're not as well updated as the others...) Cheers! SP
Yes, for the moment. Well, the superstructures are *mostly* mirrored, I've been working some on differentiating the bottom superstructure without breaking the balance. Stuff like removing the bridge terraces/enclosures, and the masts. Not completely satisfied with how that's going, but it's a work in progress. The guns, on the other hand, are all mirrored - if there's a turret on the topside, there's a matching turret on the bottom. And for the most part, the turrets are articulated - I think only the Alaska out of the ships above still has static turrets, and that's mainly because I've mislaid the scene file for it. (I have a layer with statically placed turrets for group/long range shots in each mesh file, to cut down on the number of parts that the renderer needs to keep track of in big scenes. At seven pieces per triple turret, four pieces for a twin, and two pieces each for the AA guns, they kind of add up...Lightwave sadly doesn't have instancing, or it'd be a bit easier.) Back to work, then. SP
Even in space the Iowa still looks like the mighty embodyment of Kill itself. Good job Winchester, keep it up!
Hehe. More concentrated Kill coming up... USS Montana (BB-67) The Montana-class was meant to be the followon to the Iowas, originally starting with hull number 65. The realities of war saw the Montanas slip ever downwards in the build queues, however, as more and more carriers got bumped ahead of them. They were finally cancelled in the middle of the war, after it was realized that they'd never be finished in time to see any fighting, and they'd most likely be obsolete after the war. The Montanas remain the most powerful battleships ever designed, though, with four triple 16-inch, 50 caliber main guns, and ten twin 5-inch, 54-caliber secondary guns (the only ships to ever carry these guns were the Midway class carriers.) Since the ships were never built, there are some questionmarks regarding the tertiary weapons fit they'd have carried - the platforms between the funnels on both these and the Iowas were originally meant to store boats, though the Iowas were redesigned to incorporate some extra AA during construction. Still to come, USS North Carolina (BB-55) and USS South Dakota (BB-57)...
Tried that, but everyone I asked thought it looked too fragile. The joints were massive weak points. Still thinking about the problem, though... Here's another ship for you to look at: USS North Carolina (BB-55) The North Carolina-class was the first US Navy "fast battleship" class, being several knots faster than previous classes. The key to this improvement was not, as in some other cases, trading in armor or weaponry for less weight, but rather a dramatic improvement in propulsion technology and hull shaping. The North Carolinas were armed with three triple 16-inch, 45 caliber guns, and were some of the first ships to mount the twin 5-inch, 38 caliber guns as secondary weapons. USS Washington, second of the class, performed excellently in ship-to-ship combat, in one of the last surface engagements ever fought.
Thanks. Just for that, another beauty shot: Several of the ships still have older-style barrels, but these are the ones that I'm planning on using for them all eventually. Also: The three heavy cruiser classes I've done so far lined up next to each other. Some of the battleships (old render). *All* of the battleships (also old, and *huuuuge*.)
Actually, it's fairly slow - I'm stuck for ideas on what to put on the decks. I don't want them all greebled over, but they're not supposed to be totally empty, either. Right now I'm trying to work out where to put the reloading hatches for the main magazines, and what they're supposed to look like... as well as what the transfer arms from a replenishment vessel or station should look like. I just suck at greebly bits... SP
Hrm...well, besides more PD (No PD Box Launchers or anything I would imagine,) perhaps hatches for escape pods/boarding pods?
Point defenses are mostly sorted already, I just need to sit down and install all the little launchers in their proper places. Their locations, just like the other weapons, are perscribed by the original designs I'm working from - I'm just replacing weapons on a 1-1 basis. Where the original ships had single, hand-aimed 20 mm Oerlikon guns, I'll be using RAM-style launchers (they're actually already there on the Atlanta). Likewise, escape pods are mostly already installed, and the deck has turned out to be a pretty bad place to put them anyway. With the long barrels and wide arcs of the turrets, you'd risk firing the escape pods straight up into the guns. I'll figure something out, though. Now, it's bedtime for me (3 AM local time), and tomorrow I'm going furniture shopping (need new bookshelves). Hopefully I'll be able to get back to this project tomorrow evening. Cheers, SP
So, these are based on actual battleships, that's great. I like the over/under engines on the wings. Since big pivots would be a weakness, what about rudder engines? Actually, since you're having trouble with the tail, for the Iowa class why not stuff it with four engines (four props & turbines). Keep the wings but use them for rolling leverage and put in thruster arrays at either end of the ship. Since the ship may be tail heavy the rear thruster arrays would need either larger thruster nozzles or more nozzles. However, turning would generally involve only the forward thrusters and perhaps thrust vectoring if possible. Emergency turns would use rear thrusters. Instead, you could put in fore and aft wings for the thruster arrays, smaller than the center wings, and remove the center wings. You may also want to build actual life boats to make sure they really fit. Small craft operations may need to move to the nose.
MD: Your ideas for the thruster layout sound complicated - I'm planning on adding lateral thrusters in the bow and stern, and vertical thrusters on the wingtips, but putting the main engines in the back would mess up the top deck arrangement too much, and I really want to keep it synched up with the real-world ships. The life pods were actually scaled for six people each when I built them, and I've got some larger shuttlecraft tucked away as well. I've already checked the spaces where they're supposed to go, and the fit is fairly generous. (and the shuttlecraft are huge, and can be scaled down if neccessary...) Yesterday was a bit busy, I went out and bought a 24" Widescreen LCD, which added to the 20" 4:3 LCD I already had gives me a seriously wide desktop - something like 3320x1080. Lots of workspace... Plus, the 17" CRT clunker could finally be retired, been wanting to get rid of it for ages. In addition, I got some IKEA bookshelves. Today, though, I've been hard at work with the ships again, specifically the Iowa-class battleship. I started by recessing the escape pods a bit, and reducing the groups from four to three. There are still 132 of them, which adds up to almost 800 seats. The major effort of the day however has been the new bridge complex. The previous construction assumed 2.5 meter overall deck height, which allowed two levels for the main bridge, and two for the flag bridge. In the end, I thought that looked too fragile, as well as cramped vertically, so I redid the whole thing with one level each and the windows drilled out singly. Much better! Right now I'm working on the interior of the main bridge. I dropped a section of the floor in the back, making a "pit" with a walkway around it that matches the outline of the flag bridge. The idea is that there'll be a staircase connecting the two levels directly, though I'll have to build the flag bridge interior first. Right now I need some inspiration for operator consoles and chairs, though - I need to populate my crew pit... Cheers! SP
Just one question I may very well have missed it and if so sorry. Are those ships the same SIZE as their RL equivalents?
The hull dimensions are *very* roughly three times the size - something like one foot RL = 1 meter on the model. The superstructure is even more roughly two times the RL size, maybe two and a half. I don't have any measurements for those bits, so I can't say for sure. The reason the superstructure wasn't blown up at the same rate as the hull is, well, it had to fit on top... also, it looks sleeker this way, IMO. What all this means is that the battleships all end up at around 900-1000 meters long, the cruisers around 700 (except the Atlanta, which is 600 or so). Large enough to be imposing, small enough that the visible details be man-scale.... No renders for this post, I'm afraid - I'm working on adding glass to the windows right now. Done with the upper level, but the lower will take a while... stupid booleans didn't cut evenly. Cheers, SP
Not boosting the super structure so fast makes sense because the people aren't going to be that much taller in the future. The major consideration would be armor spacing and that could account for most of the super structure increase in volume. The angling and the placement of the escape pods strikes me as a weakness. The angle complicates boarding while having them pierce the armor compromises the armor. Why not have them vertically placed? I figure dorsal and ventral armor would be the worst anyway. I'm also surprised they only carry 6 people, you can only evacuate 216 personnel with four rows of nine four pod sections. Although, I can see the crew being that small with sufficient automation.
He did say there was heavy automation, at least in the fighter squadrons, so that wouldn't be too much of a strech.
Tiny nitpick, Why exactly are there doors on the turrets in a Space Battleship? I mean, unless everyone inside is wearing a vacum suit, the moment that door opens the entire turret crew gets spaced. Other than that, these ships are pretty sweet, keep up the great work. -SK
