'Cept the Black hole thing. Oh and get his ass beat by Thanos. Surfer did that far better than Thor. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IN all seriousness though, regarding Aegis and Tenebrous, they were beaten by plot. It's true that they were stated to be equal to Galactus, but unless the center of the universe from which all creation expands happens to be hanging out on Middle Earth, defeating those two is not a meaningful feat. It would largely be like saying Frodo killed Sauron. Without Mt. Doom there for the assist, Frodo is meaningless to Sauron.
Thor's feat channeling the ... Lifebomb or Negabomb (the one that was going to destroy the Black Galaxy) is a far greater energy and matter manipulation event that making a black hole.
But as with Aegis and Tenebrous it was a plot thing. Surfer can create a Black Hole whenver he likes under hs own power.
Thor can, at any point he chooses use Mjollnir to drain galaxy shattering levels of energy. And as demonstrated he can, as an act of will do far more than make a black hole with it (he mentally scanned across the universe, found a dying star with a populated planet around it, and then transformed the star to a youthful state so that life on the planet did not die with its star. And remember, Thor has on panel delived a mortal blow to Galactus, sending him running to his ship to avoid dying. No special power up involved.
No Galactus was not starving. That is an internet myth. Thor and the Recorder found Galactus by following the trail of devastation through solar systems that Galactus had consumed planets in. Galactus was not looking for food, he was investigating a scientific anomaly, which turned out to be EGO. And no Thor did not use the Odinforce. This is another internet myth because Thor used one of his standard battle cry tactics and called out to Odin. When Thor hits say the wrecking crew with Mjollnir and cries out..."In Odin's name" is anyone sane going to make the claim that he is channeling the Odinforce?
Somene has already confirmed that they are equal in power and the previous scan of Surfer laying on his board confirms it with Galactus' own words. The same Dormammu that was intending to waste the Celestials? The same beings that are theorised to be Eternity's own immune system? Or the Ancient One that was already part of the all, and had resurfaced to battle Eternity? That same scene. Or the you know the Cosmic Power he wields? In relation to the two of three being killed, Death and Eternity are part of larger constructs which overlay the larger reality. I don't believe that has been proved, and none of the quotes explicitely state that (unless I missed something). And how many beings in Marvel claim such? Giving the rational of an infinitude of odd and even numbers analogy. So his power of creating the universe is nothing special - which when compared to beings like the Hunger -which actually eat whole realities, or Abraxas that do pretty much the same. Your logic is flawed here. Again logic flaw. So please provide a quote where it explicitely states they are the same, as I said it's not helping your case, at all. Yahweh's best feats are creating the universe - which is surprisingly suspect and parallels other religions so precisely that they are likely copied; and considering none of the other deities in question are all that. In addition to which after that his best feat is parting the red sea, and maybe a few plagues and in fct kinda pales in comparison with other things like the Hindu mythology which has far and beyond greater feats. Correct but IIRC the only mention of Yahweh was in a sort of joke strip that had him sitting at the bar wuth Jesus and the Holy Ghost. Now whether that has become a Marvel meme and gone completely out of proportion, but I don't recall God actually ever being seen in strip - other than the The One Above All, who may or may not be the same thing. If you see where I am going with this?
Thor beats Surfer not because Thor is more powerful (which he may well be, that's another argument) but because Surfer is a massively shitty fighter. He's a scientist with the power of a god, not a warrior god. Also, Surfer has only had his power for what? A century, tops? Thor has centuries of combat experience! This is the same reason anything having to do with souls baffles the fuck out of him. He's a scientist, not a mystic. He has the same problem with mysticism that Reed Richards does, he doesn't understand it at all. His power is simply a massively scaled down form of that Galactus himself wields, and Galactus can trivially alter and affect souls. Surfer just doesn't understand souls and spiritualism, so whenever he's faced with it, he's nonplussed.
I've seen it referred to on the non-official Marvel site, but not official - here: http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Bibliography-AZ3 Page down to Council of Godhead. Now it could be out of date?
Yes, but Surfer didn't defeat them with his own power. He channeled the energies they were created from and used that against them. So unless the center of the universe happens to be cooling it's heels on Middle Earth, it's a meaningless feat. Again, it's like saying Frodo beat Sauron in single combat. Take away Mt. Doom/The Crunch, and Frodo/Surfer is completely and utterly worthless in any fight with Sauron/Aegis and Tenebrous.
The don't mention Yahweh for the same reason they retconned Thor's defeat of Shiva in Thor #301: because it pissed a shitload of real people off. They changed it so that Thor beat Indra instead.
They cannot be equals in power because Galactus power levels vary with how well he is fed. The 616 Celestials are mbody manifestations of Eternity. This was shown in Marvel Saga #1. mbodies vary wildly in power. You seem to be missing the point. Being a Cosmic being does not itself grant any special powers. They all vary wildly in power levels. It did not stop Thor from almost killing him. The Power Cosmic is an ability that Galactus has and controls. Its basically his version of the Odinpower or any other similar ability. Multi-Eternity is not the same being as 616 or any other numbered reality's Eternity. The same thing likely extends for all the other types of Cosmic beings. Based on things that the LT has said, it looks like having an Eternity is the only constant for all realities, because the LT has said that there are whole multiverses where concepts like time, space, death and what not don't exist (Eternity is the abstract that represents lifespan per se, not merely time). Marvel has a shit ton of omnipotent beings but only 1 omnipotent and eternal being, TOAA. Eru/YHWH is omnipotent and eternal. http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/tolkien.htm O and yeah, in Letter 131 (letters of JRR Tolkien) In his letters and commentary, Tolkien repeatedly ties LotR to Catholicism and Eru Illiuvatar to YHWH. YHWH is defined in Catholic doctrine as Eternal and Omnipotent. I gave you a direct quote stating that LotR is an extension of Catholic doctrine. If you are going to talk about something, you need to know what its about. You also have the Ghost Rider retcon that made Ghost Rider into an undercover fallen angel for God in Hell. Marvel does not place the deities currently worshipped by theists in the real world as higher than say fictional ones. They just make an effort editorially to keep depictions either minimal or secular.
Prove that Galactus at full power is not theri equal. Scan please. Really?! So please explain why they all seem to have powers then. Yet you have failed to address other points above mine - that Thor has lots more combat experience. You are this point being massively disingenuous. Except the Multi-abstracts are the next tier up as shown in the scan which you seem blatantly aware of. Yes it does, who says it is god, or even Yahweh. There is no reference to it. Prove both are omnipotent and eternal. Funny that, as it also mentions this: Basically what Tolkien did was read a load of mythology and picks the bits he liked and tied altogether in a nice ribbon and then packaged it as Middle Earth. Right, which book and page number was that from as the link from Tolkien that you provided showed that all mention of god was excludef from it - so if you've added it you are being disingenuous - again. Quite frankly your crap is getting tiresome. http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/tolkien.htm Yet the above quote from your link states excplicitly that they DO NOT pray to God. That doctrine originated from somewhere, so you cannot have both, it is either one or the other - Eru on its own or we have to look at the origins of Christian mythology. Very simple. As I said next time I'll have you for ignoring outright evidence - you will not be told again. Yup, and Sentry goes on about how he is angel of God - yet he is raving nutcase. Doesn't make their belief true until said entity turns up. Blatantly not true, part of Thor's power is that he descended from an Elder god - explicitely stated I believe. In addition to which some gods, say the Hindu ones are stated in strip as being Elder gods also and as such above Odin in power. Stop peddling your crappy lies!
Full power Galactus could one shot both of them at the same time, along with everything else short of the LT. Full power Galactus is a Galactus who has consumed in one shot the entire 616 Reality. Its Marvel Sage number 1. Go find it, it probably costs like 50 cents in a comic shop. This is a minor point, and side tracks from this debate. I don't even know what you are trying to say her. Boo fucking hoo for the Surfer... First fight.. Thor does not even fight back, tanks everything the Surfer could throw at him, which included the Surfer having all of Loki's powers, gets up and shrugs it off. And the Surfer thought is basically, "holy shit I am glad he did not use all his power against me" http://imageshack.us/f/364/silversurferv1004p045xu9.jpg/ The only established "multi-abstract" is Multi-Eternity. He is the only one who has ever been shown. And he is the top tier one, for the entire omniverse.
I think it is the Ankhetan affair where it is mentioned that they are Elder gods. I'll have to check actually until then I'll retract that claim. Yes, and funny how fully fed he is to kick-start the universe to follow isn't it, in effect becoming the new Eternity IIRC. There are four tiers apparently looking at this: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t433019.html He is called the The One Above All, not god. Stop making references and shit up that don't exist. Thanos even referred to the wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet as GOD, yet it was an incorrect statement. I don't give two shits what Catholic doctrine believes, you state he is omniscent and eternal, prove it. Either back up your case and concede this aspect of the argument or keep it to Eru feats. Your handwaving is total crap. God from the Bible, his feats, as per board and forum rules, you know the things we judge him by are total shite. Get over it, but its the truth. Refusing to accept evidence or provide counteirng evidence to the contrary - the link you provided clearly states that Tolkien removed any kind of links to Christian doctrine. Clearly you're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_rings#Concept_and_creation Notice it says: Notice the next bit - the relevant part: The point is that it is a jumble of myths and legends bolted onto Catholic doctrine, as per above quote making it something else entirely that is not Christian. More excuses by you to handwave the issue, God is not mentioned even once in the whole series. More handwaving by you. Fact is, again, God is not mentioned at all in the books, PERIOD, as per Tolkien's own admission. Nope. Also more handwaving claptrap by you. Fact is that God's feats in the Bible do not show omniscence, it just doesn't and your claims to the contrary are entiurely unsubstantiated. He creates that appears to be the universe, but quite frankly that is a Tuesday afternoon in Marvel, and considering Gal can destroy it, that would in theory mean they are evenly matched. As stated before I'll retract that claim, however, there are other Elder gods out there besides her: http://marvel.com/universe/Elder_Gods
My claims are backed up by the words of Tolkien. Yours are wiki inspired. You are ignoring established Tolkien canon. I am quite confident of my position on these issues. As to the Elder Gods, the only one that Atum did not drive out of 616 or consume is Gaea. Since then some others have returned at times or have attempted to return. A couple of others have returned but have stayed in the magical demi realms. Apparently that at least is ok with Atum. Seems like he is concerned with the universe Earth is in.
No, you're claiming omnipotence without proving it for both Eru and Yahweh. I'm pretty sure that Atum cannot do anything about the like of Oshtur, Agamatto etc due to them being far more powerful. Don't forget that loveable snail went toe-to-toe with Galactus, something I doubt Atum could do, but I could be wrong; and Oshtur created the Astral plane.
Atum has directly fought off Set. Set has conquered multiple numbered realities. Both are well beyond standard Galactus.
Set and Seth are two entirely separate entities in Marvel. Set is the Elder God. Seth is the Egyptian God of death (Odin is also Ra in the Egyptian pantheon in Marvel).
Different set of Seths. There is the Heliopolitan God Seth, whom Odin has defeated: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/sethheli.htm And the Elder God Set, who has never fought Odin to the best of my knowledge: EDIT: Godamn ninjas.
