Discussion in 'Story Debates - Play by Post Games' started by Oseng, Sep 5, 2009.
Tabi, interested in selling some Excelsiors?
Are thou high? The Excalibur is planned to be the "big" ship for the next 10-20 years with ships like the Dommie BB in mind.
Cit, come on. You can't always have the best ship designs all the time. Hell in Omega me, Shad, Klavo and a couple others were building superdreadnoughts by this time. Besides, the Excalibur has been out for what three years? Its armament still pales in comparison to the Dominion Battleship and the Scimitar. Which is why I wanted to develop the indomitable.
I'd also like these designs approved as well.
Wildcat Infantry Fighting Vehicle
Infantry Fighting Vehicle designed for the Antaren Marine Corps. Armed with a weaker version of the shuttle phaser array as well as a anti infantry repeating phaser, the Wildcat is capable of holding seven Marines and a crew of three.
Wolverine Main Battle Tank
Main Battle Tank Design for the Antaren Marine Corps. Equipped with a shuttle phaser array and an automatic phaser canon on the turret, its unique engine forward design allows additional crew protection and the ability to carry four Marines in the back of the tank if need be.
Wallaby Self Propelled Howitzer
Using the same chasis as the Wildcat, the Wallaby is equipped with a 90mm canon capable of launching photon shells at enemy targets 80km away.
Well my first try on research projects, please be gentle on me if they are done wrong
Before the open conflict of the Dominion War, the Romulan Star Empire was besieged by the advanced technological forces of the Taurhai Unity on the otherside of Romulan space. This Taurhai Offensive held the empires attention for much time and was the leading cause of its isolation until the 24th century. During that time, a desperate gamble by a Romulan commander saw the ejection of the artificial quantum singularity core at the Taurhai enemy ship. Since that time, the Imperial Corps of Engineers was inspired to create a weapon system based on such a concept in order to combat the effectiveness of the Federation's quantum torpedoes. Whilst briefly deployed during the Dominion War, much of the data surrounding singularity torpedoes was lost until now. Though powerful, the sheer size of the weapon system means that it can only be deployed either on larger craft or on dedicated siege platforms thus limiting the use as well as number of such torpedo launchers.
(Note: making it the Romulan equivalent of a Quantum torpedo)
Here's an NPC faction in the Antaren sector. Wanted to get some feedback on it.
The Kingdom of Hylaria
Government and Economy
Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Head of State: Emperor Sicarius I
Economy: Capitalist with socialist influences
Specialist Industries: Manufacturing
Primary Population: Hylarian
Total: 12 Billion
9 Systems total
6 Major Systems
3 Minor Systems
Due to little or no history of violence or warfare in their culture, the Hylarians do not have a standing military. In fact, the Hylarians find the concept of war strange and foreign. Only recently due to pirate attacks have the Hylarians have pondered about creating a Defense Force, a subject that has been controversial in Hylarian society.
The Hylarians are a tall humanoid race that are superficially similar to humans. However physiologically they are both taller, their average height being two meters tall and have a frailer bone structure.
Technologically, the Hylarians are roughly at the same level of development as the former Federation, with replicators, holodecks and the like being commonplace.
While one would think that due to their differing philosophies, the Hylarians and Antarens would not get along. That would not have been more wrong. When the Federation, abandoned its Antaren colonists, it was the Hylarians that kept the Antarens alive, providing them with resources and the like until their colonies could become self sufficient.
Umm...that would be waaay too powerful in my opinion. You're essentially firing a self-sustaining singularity in a glass casing at someone.
Hey Tabi what's your AIM?
How many do you want and how are you going to pay for them?
Indeed I am good sir However, they would strictly be used against larger capships so smaller ones would be easily able to avoid them in my opinion and the sheer nature of the design means I could only mount them on only my largest ships or dedicated siege craft. Plus, they would be a slow firing weapon so I can't pump say four torpedoes in one go. They would have to be one torpedo once in a while so they are good for surprise attacks or attacking specific targets.
Will leave this to Citrakite to decide though i can understand that they might be considered too powerful.
Heres what I am envisioning with it if I take a plus or minus approach:
Pros - High damage making it good against large capital ships or space stations
Cons - Slow firing, can only be fitted on large vessels or those built around it, smaller vessels can avoid getting a lock
Like 30 of them, and with money and the plans for the Atlantis cruiser I'm developing.
No way. You don't seem to understand: You're firing a self-sustaining BLACK HOLE. Once it hits, it'll keep on going. Flying away. A mobile BLACK HOLE.
We may be in 2408 but tech wise we're more like 2378. The Excalibur basically is the next ship of the line after Sovereign (2372-84 onward) so it's my hard limit on what we can build. The first Excaliburs were laid down July/2406 and they weren't launched until July/2407 so they been in service less then a year at this point. Even semi-forgettable ships like the Ambassador got a decade before they were replaced.
It's armament and shields give it a clear edge over a Dominion Battleship even without the Quantum advantage. Against the Scimitar it needs the Quantums to even things out and it still favors the Romulans 2:1 but given it was a massive curbstomp before with the Sovereign (4.7:1) that's a huge improvement and our version doesn't have the perfect cloak. Given her tech level and build time she's not going to be made in huge numbers with the Valdore/Noreaxan as the main Battleship of the Empire.
These things fly, hover, have wheels, or what?
I don't see why anyone would need 'ground' vehicles. Most of the shuttle types have hatch backs so it be easy on/off deployment. Ju'day basically is a Federation version of a Chinook transport gunship with Scout and the like more like modern Blackhawks. Can't imagine the shields would be any better then these craft either.
Wallaby is the only one I see that has a purpose not filled by existing craft as it's for use when your people are too close to use a 64 MT photon torpedo or micro safety (which is about 6km) or you want something taken, not made a smoking hole in the ground.
The Anti-infantry phaser canon part I'm not allowing for being redundant. They got wide stun settings on the shuttle phasers and the Compression Rifle is a rapid-firing man mower. Trees or not if a single shuttle had used Wide stun in a place like Vietnam we'd have found hundreds of VC sleeping it off near our Landing zones.
As for the rest, you got to talk to me about why they'd bother making these. If they fly they'd have same limits as a shuttle so if they can't fly these won't fly either. If they're wheeled then they either be flown down or transported. If you can do either why would you need wheeled vehicles?
There will be no whipping the warp core/AQS at your enemy as a normal weapon. It's size makes it prohibitive to carry more then one or two shots even on something the size of a Galaxy and it's massively over-powered. . A refined Plasma torpedo be more like the Quantum, or you might try using Quantum itself. I've turned down one Singularity weapon already. DENIED.
Sounds ok to me.
For a barely there nation, don't you think 30 Refit Cruisers is a bit much for one go? Same thing applies to you and your trying to get 25 Defiants, it's a no-go there.
If you're referring to the Atlantis from Reich then you can't sell the plans it's the Reich's. You can't build them anyway, it's a ++ ship, which is why he was doing it for you. If not, I haven't seen any plans from you so either way let's not barter with what you don't have.
That's fine. However if we get borg and other nasty shit as time goes on I would like the ability to research superdreads. They say that war is what forces societies evolve at a faster pace.
They hover and are used during ground assaults. Basically they're used to support the marines on the ground. As good as shuttle are, air support can not completely replace ground vehicles.
Look at Afghanistan, we have utter and complete air supremacy but despite that, we still need ground vehicles for heavy weapons and mobility. its much more economical to build IFVs and MBTs than to have a shuttle for every three platoons. Like we see in Afghanistan air support has its limits while ground vehicles are there with the troops.
As for the compression rifle, can I mount them on my IFVs and MBTs? They are the ST equivalent of a .50 caliber machine gun after all.
I really should be in bed and asleep considering that is past one AM in the morning but ah well - saw this and decided to toss a quick post up before I went back to bed.
I don't really see a problem with your NPC Cast though I would recommend that they have some sort of defense force. They would have a great deal of trouble without at least a few ships to keep pirates and warlords away (especially in this day and age).
Also please remember that if anyone has a problem with one of Citrakite's rulings they can appeal the ruling to me, but I generally will not overrule him without a good and solid reason.
Finally on the tanks's etc one of the things that I noted in the opening post in order to cut off a potential debate and issue is that each of the old pre-fall of subspace nations is considered to have had a competent ground arm. In the United Federation of Planet's case that was the often found in fannon Starfleet Marines. So the ground combat specialist vehicles probably would not be anything new. Well I actually used the word effective but competent is the general idea.
If we get Borg I get to try out the Excalibur on them and see how we stack up. I doubt with them there'll be time to research and build a new ship type. For other nasty shit if it comes around in 10 years or so from now sure. There's still a lot of wiggle room between Sovereign and Excalibur though.
Given they can hover barely above the ground and have better versions of the same weapons, I don't see why not in Trek.
Our F-22's and Apache's can't hover 2 feet off the ground with the same noise level as a IFV or Tank or quieter though. I think you're being too literal in applying our tech vs their tech. Fact is we think so little of shuttles we don't even have to build them in a yard. Each station, starbase and ship is presumed to be able to make their own as needed.
I'm going to approve all of them under the 'Competent Ground forces" Clause Oseng put in the opening. Meaning they always existed so you don't have to research them. I consider them non-game affecting in the light they're not all that strong and you(Antares) just picked them rather then have standard shuttles or workerbees for the same effect.
oh about the Wallaby, I was wrong. They got one to do it's job too.
Why not? The Argo had one IIRC.
I don't say no or ask for changes because I'm just being a dick or don't like someone. If I say anything but yes it's to make better tech or to avoid wasting your time/unbalancing the game.
I get what the op means but it doesn't really change the fact the shuttles and runabouts can act as gunships in a similar fashion to the 'ground' vehicles making a competent ground force without them. Thus I'm going to consider them to be little used options in most powers as shuttles can do all that ground mess and get you to the next planet to start all over.
Citrakite, in regards to your discussion on ground vehicles, you're absolutely wrong on the 'no anti-infantry phaser'.
The compression rifle is really more of an M240/MMG analogue- it's man-portable in a useable condition, it's got *decent* range and power, and it's adaptable to many circumstances and environments. It seems to have decent anti-personnel ability, but even with its performance in Nemesis, it's not a solid anti-vehicle weapon. Perhaps it can be scaled up in terms of power, but it would also need cooling, and the resulting weapon would be closer to Cast's proposed '50-cal' analogue than the current compression phaser. Such a phaser would be too heavy to be easily man-portable, and with the associated power supplies, it would become a true heavy-machinegun.
As far as your assertion that 'shuttles' can do the same job as an armored fighting vehicle, you're completely retarded. Even with the best demonstrated shields, a shuttle is painfully vunerable to weapons fire, and their size, weapons suite, and design make them poor AFVs. Yes, a Starfleet or other known shuttle is an exceptional transport, and could probably make an adequate gunship, but in the role of an armored fighting vehicle, in heavy combat, they'd be massacred by anyone who deployed anti-air weaponry or a dedicated ground vehicle. A 'proper' AFV would take the hull of a shuttle, armor it extensively, remove the warp and impulse drives, armor it, and pour the excess power into antigravs, shields, and weapons. Sensors would be primarily tricorder-driven- there's no need to be able to scan to the molecular level, but they would retain their abilities to detect energy fields, lifesigns and the like. They'd be developed in variants as well- IFV, tanks, and artillery. See Star Trek: New Worlds for what they'd look like- it's a lot of sense.
*Completely and totally incorrect. A compression rifle is, as I explained above, at most the equivalent of a medium machine gun. A heavier weapon would be very appropriate for dealing with infantry behind cover, through dense foliage, etc. 'Wide stun' might be good against unarmored people, but on a battlefield, where you could quite realistically expect armor, medics, and shields, relying on 'wide-stun' is a bad idea.
Not necessarily. A 'flying' AFV need not have orbital capability or supersonic speed. A tracked or wheeled vehicle would be very useful in an environment where sustained operations were required, or where antigravs were unusable, or simply to avoid the energy signature associated with hovering/flying.
No, I don't think it's excessive. If they're sold to me, they'll be kept up with parts on-hand, which are affordable for the USR. Also, keep in mind that the acquisition of 30 cruisers will eat the procurement budget for some time, and give the USR a reason to stop growing its military in terms of heavy ships.
The Atlantis is a shared project, with the USR gaining access to the plans in exchange for raw materials. It's being co-developed and the Reich is building the things.
Multi-quote, try using it some time.
1. How did Anti-Personal turn into Anti-Material in your mind? You admit it's like the M240 which is a 7.62mm medium machine gun similar to the one you'd find on tanks and IFV's for Anti-personal work IE blasting the poor fucks charging your ride. That's what I'm based Anti-Infantry on. Seems that what Cast meant to or he'd say something.
2. You notice Shuttles shitty record is because they get shot up by starships making your example much like your logic flawed? In shuttle vs similar type they do rather well (Scout Vs Type 11, Danube vs Raider) which would be the case here. As far as heavy combat goes, anti-air options are photon grenade or mT. Not like RL tanks want a rocket or AT missile in their ass either high tech armor or not. You also forget it gets it's power from the warp and Impulse drives so you pull those it's basically using battery power which isn't going to make it all that fast or well-armed as it barely move along at it's size and weight. Lastly don't tell me to look at non cannon games that seem to be a C&C clone.
Your slanted opinion like your over-use of the word Retarded aren't really that welcome. If you got time to nitpick and whine you should use it to make another version of the Valkyrie so you can get that approved finally.
That what we call a rhetorical question. Just getting 30 cruisers when your a + power is a lot. You also got no parts to speak off given all your other Excelsiors are active and no one else will supply you. It's unrealistic period.
That's not a shared plan BTW. You basically brought the license to them for mineral shipments despite the fact you had no hope of making them at your tech level which is why they had to build it for you in their offer. See in that case you'd need the Reich's approval as their the owners. Like when Tabi tried to get me to sell Mk II Quantums to him. I couldn't because Cast owns the license.
Even if it was really a shared design, it takes both partners agreeing to the deal to sell it. Tabi couldn't sell you Gen III plans or Cast offer up Luna's without my approval. Your partner is a NPC, run by Oseng, who I consider to have the majority of the credit for the plans (75%) compared to your - level nation at the time. You were eager cheap labor to them. Either way you need approval before you can offer them up and you're trying to sell them to Tabi, Mr 'I got six different cruisers from five different species' (Fed, Cardassian, Klingon, Bajoran, Karemma). Yeah that's going to over well.
First of all, if you had any sense whatsoever, you'd realize that a medium machine-gun, while excellent for dismounted movement, simply doesn't have the range or firepower needed to punch through cover and kill infantry or light vehicles reliably. A medium machine-gun is a compromise- the only reason they're mounted as coaxial weapons in AFVs is because they have a heavier weapon, and the only reason they're used in COIN is ROE restrictions- and for the record, heavy machine-guns are still preferred. When you're trying to kill people who are trying to kill you, it's a good idea to have a more powerful weapon than you *absolutely* need.
If I were you (thank God I'm not), I would allow Cast to develop his anti-infantry heavy weapon, because it's a logical progression. That or he could just fabricate some old 50-cals and mount them.
Second, a ground-combat vehicle probably wouldn't have a M/AM reactor on-board. The consequences of a warp-core breach in a city or even simply on a planet's surface would be catastrophic. Far better to have some of Trek's batteries or a simple fusion reactor.
Lastly, if you weren't such an arrogant ass, you would look at that game (noncanon as it is) and you'd see something called sense. It's not to be copied slavishly, it's an application of concepts into the Trek universe.
I could mention that a phaser unlike a gun blasts a hole in most people it hits regardless of charge or that trek physics say packing crates of thin metal and even plastic can be used for cover safely making the upgrade you suggested useless in the game setting or the Impulse drive is a fusion reactor which you wanted taken out.
I also looked at screen shots of the game and found it was a C&C clone and the equipment looked horrible. I've seen tanks in Gundam that looked more suited for land combat then that. Star Wars would be a better concept of how Hover vehicles can act in ground combat despite orbital support, theater/plantary shields, and the casual use of city destroying levels of firepower.
Boils down to two things you can't argue with.
1. There how things work in RL and how things work in Trek. Unless it's interferes with the game (like having phaser cannons on fighters) I'm going to favor how it works in Trek and what I said favors how things work in trek.
2. I'm the Tech mod. I'm the one who really determines the line between How Trek and how RL the game will be so if I favor Trek aspect more that's how it's going to be unless Oseng has reason to overrule it.
In case you didn't read that part I allowed his vehicles but I'm waiting on your Valkyrie submission still.
1. It should a - or + level fighter, preferably the former (-) or you never made any until recently.
2. It shouldn't have more then one PPC and probably none (tech's out of your range)
3. I need to know what kind of torpedo launcher it has not the load (common sense says a 21m long fighter isn't going to have dozen and dozens even if they mt).
4. I like at least a rough idea of its protection (shields+armor if any). If not I'll use the bog standard of the Peregrine.
1 phaser array, 1 PPC
1 mT launcher with 12 rounds
hardpoints for 3 photon/quantum torpedoes
Dunno what stats to put on it just yet, so I'm leaving it here for now to stake my claim on it. Suggestions would be fine. And yes, those are slips for ships to dock into.
I'm waiting on a go for my Sadako and Sky Harbor Classes still.
Sadako Class 343m (8 months)------ 35,000,000 (8RP/4AT-0) ++
The Sadako in appearance may seem to be an Intrepid with holes cut in the primary hull but It draws back to the original concept of a fast and well protected exploration cruiser the Pathfinder prototype was before it was changed to be the Defiant we know today. Using technology developed from the Luna and Sovereign, The Sadako retains it's scientific abilities while boosting it's power and protection to new levels. It is armed with 8 Type VIII phasers and 4 Pulse fire tubes armed with the MK II Quantum torpedo. It's protection is handed by regenerative multi-phasic subspacial shields and ablative armor giving it a chunky look.
Sky Harbor Class Starbase------ Length: 1,200m (16 months)- 95,000,000------------------(2HP/10RP/8STT) ++
Basically the Starbase for the Future replacing older designs, some that can draw their origins back to the time of Kirk. Her design assures she retains the capacity of older bases despite being smaller in size. She armed with 2 Type 12 Phaser arrays, 10 Type Phaser arrays and 8 standard tubes firing the Mk II Quantum Torpedo. She has the latest in Republic Shield and Armor technology making her a fortress for the fleet to gather around.
I'm taking it as you're going to edit your OOB to remove the Valkyries then.
What kind of Phaser arrays?
Anything over V-VI would be too much. Quantum torpedoes don't fit on the same mount as Photons. Extension of Oseng's ruling that they can't use same tube either.
* I hit a snag. if the PPC is the only thing on the ship that counts then the ship should be +++ (3/1=3). Essentially you can't have PPC on your ship period even if you're a + level power.
Speaking of PC's, the Manta Class is ++ I forgot to put that in the info when I gave it weapons.
Don't you already have a huge ass starbase? You need a second one get my Sky Harbor, I needs a partner.
You been the Jarrahe? Thats a research station. This one is the real uber starbase. It shall rival your Sky Hangar! I'm co-developing the Manta Class with Cast2007, I can help you co-develop and build the Sky Harbor if you want.
As for the Deacon, I suppose it can wait.
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