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Star Wars vs Star Ocean

Discussion in 'Vs. Debates' started by Mid-Boss2997, Dec 15, 2007.

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  1. [​IMG]

    VS

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    The Empire is set six months before the start of A New Hope.

    The Pangalactic Federation is in it's prime before the Executioner attack. For the purpose of this match, lets assume that they have access to half the amount of battleships and forces that the Empire has at the given time.

    If the war lasts long enough for the completion of the Death Star, the Federation gets one Executioner for backup.

    Goal for the Empire is to conquer the Federation. Goal for the Federation is the death of Palpatine and Vader, along with the liberation of the Empire.

    Is this match in any way reasonable? Tell me and I'll try to equal it out a little more.

    EDIT:

    Star Ocean 3 in-game dictionary (relevant information about tech starts at V. Miscellaneous):
    http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/536705/34190
     
  2. 100thlurker

    100thlurker Solidarity

    The Pangalactic Federation is the Federation. They are basically a ripoff of the UFP, but with even less firepower.

    Utter curbstomp I'm afraid.
     
  3. Uhmm... The newest battleships of the Federation have Creation Cannons with a firepower of magnitude 2. Which would be 91,5 teratons per shot. And that's not counting the phase cannons, antimatter cannons, antimatter torpedoes and quantum torpedoes.

    EDIT:

    As to where I got the teraton figure, magnitude 1 describes the amount of energy a star like our sun produces in a microsecond. Each following magnitude is increased by a factor of one thousand.

    In the main story of the game it was stated that all the latest battleships have a Creation Cannon with a magnitude 2 energy output.
     
  4. Pooka

    Pooka Trainee of Darkness

    According to that link, a malfunction in a Creation Cannon can (and has) accidentally "annihilate a planet from this universe".

    That's a helluva gun.
     
  5. 100thlurker

    100thlurker Solidarity

    Thing is, the power of your guns is pretty useless when your enemy can simply drown you in warships. The Federation is simply not prepared to fight a real war. That is not including the fact that Stormtroopers will simply slaughter everything they see.
     
  6. Did you read the op? I gave the Federation half the battleships that the Empire has in Star Destroyers (example... Empire 100.000 SD then Federation 50.000 battleships like the Aquaelie, same with the troops). That should equal it out a little.
     
  7. Cpl_Facehugger

    Cpl_Facehugger Evolution Complete Administrator

    Which is what, exactly? Where are you getting this number from?
     
  8. Well, the output of the sun in seconds would be 380 yottawatts or 9.15×10^10 megatons of TNT per second. Divide that number by a million and you get the output in a microsecond.

    By all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

    Source:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun
    http://www.petrolpump.co.in/energy-sources/solar.htm
    http://www.solarnavigator.net/the_sun.htm
    http://www.newuniverse.co.uk/Solar_core.html
    http://www.koordinaten.de/english/encyclopedia/sun.shtml
     
  9. Cpl_Facehugger

    Cpl_Facehugger Evolution Complete Administrator

    Thank you, that's what I was asking for.
     
  10. Any consenquences to the ship? A malfuction, even if it yields a beneficial result, is probably an overall negative, otherwise the manufacturer would have had that "malfunction" in by design.
     
  11. Pooka

    Pooka Trainee of Darkness

    It's in that in-game encyclopedia he posted a link to. From the context, I didn't get that the planet was even the target. More that the gun went kaboom and took the ship and a nearby planet with it.
     
  12. Pooka

    Pooka Trainee of Darkness

    Here's the text; for some reason I can't edit my post.

    "Creation Cannon (Weapon)
    The creation energy-based cannons used by ships in the Pangalactic
    Federation military.
    Since these guns use creation energy as an energy source, they are far
    more destructive than the antimatter cannons that used to be the
    mainstay of ship-to-ship weaponry.
    However, creation cannons are far more difficult to control. In 732
    SD, the time-space displacement shield inside the battleship Tilgrem's
    primary cannon malfunctioned, resulting in an explosion that
    annihilated an entire planet from this universe!
    For this reason, Federation law stipulates extremely severe
    restrictions regarding the use of creation cannons."

    And Creation Energy;

    "Creation Energy (Scientific Term)
    Research on this completely new type of energy system began after a
    discovery in the second half of the 4th century SD, and practical
    applications based on the system first appeared in the first half of
    the 8th century SD.
    This system, which was discovered in an ancient ruin on the planet
    Milokeenia, describes a system wherein part of the energy that exists
    in imaginary number space is drawn into three-dimensional space.
    Theoretically, this type of system could produce an essentially
    infinite amount of energy.
    Of course, since no type of material or electromagnetic shield can
    withstand the tremendous amounts of energy created by this system, the
    use of creation energy is strictly limited to special areas of space
    surrounded by space-time displacement shields."

    Basically, it seems that the stuff is so explosive nothing but a time/space field can hold it, and those are needed to shape the stuff into a directed beam. On the Tilgrem, those fields failed, and the Creation Energy exploded out in all directions.

    As Handwavium goes, Creation Energy makes Hypermatter look like one of Newton's laws. :)
     
  13. While the planetary annilation sounds quite good, I would say that's a consenquence of the unstable and violatile nature of it's source, unlike Hypermatter which is inert. Star Wars could probably achieve a similar result without resorting to something as ridiculious as the Death Star. A big hypermatter bomb maybe?

    91 Teratons isn't terribly out of Star Wars league. They can and have made stuff in that range, it's just that the Imperial Star Destroyer is so iconic people tend to believe it's THE ship class and the most powerful except for a handful of special cases like the Death Star or the Executor. We've seen planet-based turbolasers the size of office buildigns that could supposedly gut a Star Destroyer with a single hit, so we know weapons in that range exist, they simply don't exist on a destroyer.
     
  14. Pooka

    Pooka Trainee of Darkness

    Consider something; this is a weapon (and there's no reason whatsoever to believe it's anything but DET, based on that description), that when it explodes in a 360 sphere, a planet receiving a fraction of that blast is still, at least, BDZ-ed, and may be mass scattered; the word "annihilated" isn't clear.

    Now imagine that same amount of power in beam form. That's easily equal to the Eclipse's Superlaser, and possibly in the same ballpark as the Death Star Superlaser.

    And this isn't a "superweapon". This is the standard armament of a main battleship. There's almost no question that the SW contemporary is grossly outgunned.
     
  15. Cpl_Facehugger

    Cpl_Facehugger Evolution Complete Administrator

    No, the word annihilated isn't very clear. Nor is it clear what kind of planet they're talking about. One that has but a single settlement would require considerably less energy to 'annihilate' than something similar to Trantor or Coruscant.
     
  16. Pooka

    Pooka Trainee of Darkness

    Well, given the quote saying that the planet was "annihilated from the universe", I'm assuming the planet was at least rendered totally uninhabitable, and not just a local colony or something destroyed.

    But you're right, that is a possibility.
     
  17. Except we know how much a Creation Gun produces and that's 91.5 teratons.

    If a Star Destroyer could detonate all of it's fuel at once, we'd likely be in the low to mid petatons when you consider the fact a Star Destroyer exhausts itself after a few hours of contiously firing all it's guns, with thousands of shots per weapon in that time.

    Star Wars I understand uses massfire/mass shielding tactics in engagements, where oppenents try to wear down and overwhelm eachother. A big shot from one gun is possible for Star Wars, it's just more practical to use lots of smaller ones, since the response time and weapon coverage is better that way. Evidently shield penetration isn't possible unless there's some ridiculious amount of power behind it and I don't believe teratons will cut it in a big fleet engagement.
     
  18. Tyrant

    Tyrant MetalHead

    The Imperator is used because it's one of the most common ships that we've seen in SW. We know it's not even the most powerful ship in the Imperial navy
    outside of the Star Dreadnoughts or the Death Star (We know the Alligeance is more powerful, the various Star Cruisers that appeared in Dark Empire, Admiral Giel's Battleship, Captain Wermis' and Baron Tagge's Star Battlecruisers, amoung others.)

    91 teratonnes is not anything out of an ISD's firepower range, espcially given the fact that the ISD canonically boasts more firepower than the Venator, which does, in fact, have HTLS that can do about 1 teraton worth of firepower before all power is shunted to the guns, ETC. The Imperator eight HTL Batteries total, four flaking each side of the bridge.
     
  19. Pooka

    Pooka Trainee of Darkness

    Uh...point. Looking back over the magnitude stuff, a Creation Cannon puts out 91.5 teratons per microsecond, right?

    Is there any way to know (or guess at) how long a blast from one of those lasts? Are any shown firing in game?

    Because if it's more than...well...a microsecond...then that's very important information for us to have.
     
  20. The microsecond figure was in reference to how much energy the sun generates in that time. Not the Creation Gun's rof. If a Creation Gun had that kind of output overtime, then I would say it could comfortably cut through any fleet Star Wars brought to bear.
     
  21. Pooka

    Pooka Trainee of Darkness

    Well, that's the issue. If we assume that the magnitude term implies a standard of time (a microsecond), then it's rather important how long a Creation Cannon beam lasts.

    It could even be less than a microsecond, in which case the power of the Creation Cannon goes down significantly.

    Or the magnitude term may be time-independent, in which case it's just 91.5 teratons.
     

  22. From the Star Ocean Dictionary:

    Energy Magnitude (Scientific Term)
    A unit created to express huge amounts of energy on the universal
    scale, with magnitude 1 defined as the average total amount of energy
    emitted by a star approximately the same size as Sol in one microsecond
    (millionth of a second).
    In this notation, the amount of energy expressed goes up by a factor of
    one thousand with each magnitude, so the energy indicated by magnitude
    9 is one septillion (10 24) times the amount of energy indicated by
    magnitude 1.


    Creation Cannon in action:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GeMdb6lr6U
     
  23. Silence

    Silence Hero of the Imperium

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONqzSPN0HAE

    This is a federation battleship in action against really powerful beings. This is their best battleship lead by their best captain. Should give some context on how a Star Ocean ship looks like when in combat.
     
  24. So was that one big shot in the middle the Creation Gun firing? Doesn't really answer any of our current questions, but it's interesting nevertheless.

    And hey, maybe I've finally found something that could actually play with the Nodos?

    Wouldn't magnitude 2 imply 91000 teratons for the Creation Gun?
     
  25. Pooka

    Pooka Trainee of Darkness

    From that youtube click, I eyeballed that big beam as lasting somewhere between 6 and 8 seconds. Now, this is my first calc ever, so coddle my ignorance, but, if magnitude is time-dependent, that puts it at 554 to 732 exatons.

    Which would better explain the planetary destruction thing.

    Am I horribly wrong?
     
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