Discussion in 'Story Debate Archives' started by Big Steve, Apr 10, 2003.
::runs flailing around screaming madly and gibbering about mech/tank debates::
The entire SD is predicated on extremely unfeasible and unrealistic technology. One more - especially one that's been canonically a part of the SD since its very inception - isn't exactly going to send the whole thing tumbling down.
Well Iceberg, if everyone used weapons with a range of 100 kilometers and I used weapons with a range of 500 kilometers, what would happen?
You may be using mecha, but then someone with something better, like gunships that utterly tear mecha apart due to their inane, illogical design, comes around and changes thing. Just because you've been using them doesn't make them GOOD.
I promise you a great deal of pain.
I'm sick of fighting and refighting this goddamn battle. If people aren't going to stop acting like a bunch of fucking mindless babies and whining about how mecha don't work because they don't have them, I'm going to fucking quit, I promise. This is supposed to be fun, and I WAS having fun before people decided to be shallow assholes who arbitrarily get to decide that their brand of unrealistic technology is better than somebody else's brand of unrealistic technology. Now shut the fuck up and quit whining.
It is supposed to be fun, not a harangue. If folks want to use mecha, then let them compete using the various strengths and weaknesses. For now, for the sake of having a good time, let everyone compete on an equal basis and suspend disbelief.
If we were a real Pentagon feasability think tank for future weapons, the nitpicking would be appros pos. But for here, it's supposed to be entertainment. I'm a non-mech type myself but it is not something that gets in the way of my enjoyment of the story.
THis is coming from you who, while I was still playing the HTE, pulled out some sort of "Infinity" beam out of your ass to disrupt phase cloaks? Please.
I like to think we are playing with some resemblence to competent military forces. Just like how Federation ships are absolute shit because of their poor design, yet we don't make them better then they are. If I or anyone else designed a horrible piece of shit for technology and used it, everyone here would say how crappy it is.
If I wanted mecha, Iceberg, I could have given the ASE mecha.
All I am saying is that mecha, while good at PD, would most likely get blasted to hell if fleets closed in and gunships came into range.
Bryan, phase cloaks and antiphase weapons are a multiplier to weapon cost in Mekton Z. This is an official rule of the system, added by Benjamin Wright in 1998 or so. All that happened is that FRE weapons research "uncovered" it.
Read it and weep, boy. By my own, self-inflicted rules, I can do this.
Yeah Iceberg, I know. You pulled it out of your ass. We all knew that. Because someone had something you didn't and were going to use it in an unconventional manner, you had a tantrum and had to make bullshit up.
Typical of you. You've used OOC information before against me.
BTW, your rules for making your silly little mecha which can easily be destroyed by gunships have to first and foremost apply to the rules of this SD. Or can I make up my own universe, with my own rules, and construct ridiculous vehicles because they are my own "bullshit rules"? You finally told us how you made mecha long after the phase cloaks and your Infinity beam from your ass.
So you pulled it from your ass, like I said, that is typical of you.
BTW Iceberg, you're also lying and contradicting yourself. You never even began researching anti-phase weapons until after Oberon, where you captured some HTE computers that said we had them. And then they would never work above the small percentage of a 5% success rate because you had NOTHING to test it on.
Then when the HTE is fighting the OSE and I make plans utilizing my phase cloaks, SUDDENLY you get some Infinity beam that can render them useless. This was SUDDEN. It somehow popped up in your new OOB you posted right after you learned of my plans.
That's powergaming. And I'll call you on it, boy.
Not any "bullshit rules" will be allowed. I allowed Mekton Z rules because of their fighter/mecha comparison. And they're staying in.
If you keep this bitching up, Bryan, I will smack you down.
So you would allow the rules for comparison sakes, correct? Iceberg is using them to his advantage to work outside the rules.
He posted their development. Development and deployment aren't the same thing, and it has been enough time after the Battle of Oberon, as well as ADN knowledge of phase-cloaking tech being given to the FRE, for them to realistically develop countermeasures to it. The ADN has already been working on countermeasures since our intel sources in Starfleet found out about the Pegasus cloaking device.
Yes, the timing was critical, but considering you were about to embark on using your phase cloaks to powergame, you can't complain on him developing something that would nullify their advantage. So shut the fuck up. NOW.
First, I was going to use phase cloaks in an unconventional manner. That is hardly powergaming. Powergaming would be like somehow having all my ships possessing it and being able to fire while phased.
Second, he was developing this and in his previous OOB the success rate was basically 5%. I even talked to you about it I believe. Then SOMEHOW it jumps to being basically totally effective virutally overnight after he learned of my plans.
That is too much of a coincidence to write it off as "enough time has passed from Oberon" for him to develop a counter to it that works basically all the time. He never had a prototype and he had no sensor data to see how it worked. All he knew of was that the HTE had something called a phase cloak and would have a little information about what they do, not how they work. This technology didn't have its diagrams and technical specifications stored in every military computer for every joe to steal.
Also, don't conveniently forget I was completely willing to allow them to be useless AFTER I used them. I most likely would not have had a problem with Iceberg's ass-pulling had he done it AFTER when there would be plenty of data on how an HTE phase cloak worked and operated.
He did, however, have the comprehensive data we took from Starfleet on their phase cloak.
And it's really a moot point. Making phase-cloaked ships into unstoppable kamikazes that could kill the most powerful warship type in the game easily while mounted on a cruiser is powergaming. Your denials to the contrary are not accepted. He was within his right to ensure that in a Round 2, you didn't use this method on his fleet to get cheap victories.
The issue here is the aamzing coincidence that he developed this. Never did he actually post of their development outside of his Order of Battle. He never gave updates, never did anything.
Then suddenly, suddenly they magically appear because he was scared and upset that I had something he didn't and could use it.
I was willing to have them become basically ineffective after they had been used. But no, he took it from his ass.
And NOW he is using these Mekton rules to somehow justify it. He's lying and making stuff up now to cover his ass.
I'm more concerned over his future abuse of any of these rules than any past abuses.
Everyone was upset about how you'd use phase cloaks, Bryan.
They would have become ineffective precisely because of his weapons and other countermeasures that would have put in place after you used them in such a stunning way.
He's always used Mekton rules to justify it. You just don't pay enough attention.
That's what moderators are for. If you're concerned I'd be biased in his favor, there is also Fenris to appeal to, and Silence, and Marina as well as she's a senior player.
If everyone was upset, okay. You allowed me phase cloaks and I was going to use them unconventionally. I'm allowed to use technology I have been allowed in a manner I deem appropriate.
If they were to become ineffective, okay. I was perfectly willing to accept that. You even brought this issue up on ICQ when we were discussing the phase cloaks and I agreed to it as an acceptable loss. You said I would loose my "trump card" and I said then I would loose it.
If he always uses Mekton rules he has to use the part of the rules that apply to the SD. If I were the only one allowed to have phase cloaks he can't say that "according to Mekton rules I have anti-phasing weaponry" when he has no phase cloaks. That's the point. He may have used Mekton to make stuff, now he is justifying the crap he pulled from his ass with it.
And finally, I guess being one of the original players really has given me nothing more than coming to the discussion thread, posting my problems, and then having people to tell me to shut up? Nice.
Can everybody post their AIM name? Thanks.
Mine is OTGod45
lordcoyotus, for AIM as well as Yahoo
JediPhong on AIM and YIM.
IceBergr on AIM. Won't touch MSNIM or YIM.
You changed the rules of the SD without consulting me? (Rather odd rules at that...)
Okay, we're going to need to talk, because large rules-modifications were supposed to be cooperatively decided upon by the mods together, of which I am one for the game, last I checked...
The rules were never changed. They were in place at the beginning.
We'll speak tomorrow.
Whoah, calm down, guys.
IDMR00 on AIM.
Separate names with a comma.