The Great Game Discussion Thread #2

http://stgjr.racknine.net/sd/alphaquadmap.jpg

Marina and I have been working on it. Mostly Marina, although I did a couple alterations to try and fit the borders with previous ADN material, and I added the text labels for who is where.

I don't know where Marina got the base map from.

That is a fanmade ST map of the Federation and respective powers.

I think from the Daystrom Institute.

November, 4280, Fleet Numbers And Construction Update:

Confederation Star Navy:
-Planetary Defense Forces:
-28,120 System Cutters (Rebuilding to 194,280; 500/month, increasing by 46,988/month to 47,488 in Jan/4282, completing in April/4282)
-744,162 Aerospace Fighters (Rebuilding to 1,165,680; 65,000/month)

-Sectorial Defense Forces:
-3,397 Interstellar Cutters (Rebuilding to 18,120; 250/month, increasing by 2,085/month to 2,335/month in August/4281, completing in Jan/4282)
-1,707 Destroyers (Rebuilding to 3,624; 195/month, increased by 162/month to 357/month in Feb/4281, increased by 34/month to 391/month in March/4281, completing in May/4281)
-923 Light Cruisers (Rebuilding to 1,208; 75/month, increased by 56/month to 131/month in Dec/4280, production complete in Feb/4281, construction switching to destroyers)
-499 Heavy Cruisers (Rebuilding to 1,208; 35/month, increased by 42/month to 77/month in Feb/4281, by 1 in May, 4281, and by 130/month in June/4281 to 208/month, completing in July/4281.)

-Battlefleet of the Confederation (including construction schedules):
Total Fleet Numbers (current): 10,124 warships of all classes.
-0 Juggernaught IIs (360 Fighters/ship) [1 in Dec/4286, 1 in Dec/4287, 1 in Dec/4288]
-5 Juggernaughts (240 Fighters/ship)
-0 Omnipotent class Superdreadnoughts (240 Fighters/ship) [1 in Aug/4283, 1 in Sep/4283, 1 in Oct/4283, 1 in Dec/4283, 1 in Feb/4284, 1 in Apr/4284, 1 in Jun/4284, 1 in Aug/4284, 1 in Nov/4284, 1 in Jan/4285, 1 in Mar/4285, 1 in May/4285, 1 in Aug/4285, 1 in Jan/4286]
-0 Yonaga class Dreadnoughts (240 Fighters/ship) [6 in Dec/4281, 4 in June/4282, 7 in Aug/4282, 4 in Oct/4282, 9 in Dec/4282, 2 in Feb/4283, 2 in Apr/4283, 2 in June/4283, 2 in Aug/4283, 2 in Oct/4283, 2 in Dec/4283, 2 in Feb/4284]
-6 Tyrrhenian class Dreadnoughts (60 Fighters/ship)
-16 Revenge class Dreadnoughts (72 Fighters/ship)
-7 Annapolis class Dreadnoughts (48 Fighters/ship)
-7 Kaga class Dreadnoughts (48 Fighters/ship)
-1 Kii class modified Kaga Dreadnought (120 Fighters/ship)
-2 Drake class Dreadnoughts
-0 Excelcior class Battleships (24 Fighters/ship) [4/month starting Dec/4281, 136 total]
-0 Hood class Pocket Battleships (24 Fighters/ship) [5/month startin May/4281, 95 total]
-0 Merrimack class Escort Battleships (36 Fighters/ship) [2 in Jan/4281, 4 in Mar/4281, 4 in Jun/4281, 3 in Sep/4281, 3 in Dec/4281, 4 in Apr/4282]
-12 Galetea class Battleships
-2 Orion class Battlecruisers (24 Fighters/ship) [4 in Jan/4281, 4 in Apr/4281, 3 in Jul/4281, 3 in Oct/4281, 4 in Jan/4282]
-12 Vigilance class Battlecruisers
-5 Tirpitz class Battlecruisers [ADN]
-1 Presidential II class Battlecruiser [ADN]
-56 Avenger class Battlecruisers (Missouri refits) [ADN]
-56 Repulse class Battlecruisers [ADN]
-7 Lexington class Fleet Carriers (240 Fighters/Carrier) [2 Dec/4280, 2 Apr/4281, 2 Aug/4281, 2 Dec/4281]
-3 Enterprise class Fleet Carriers (160 Fighters/Carrier)
-1 Sol class Fleet Carrier (360 Fighters/Carrier)
-91 Conversion class Fleet Carriers (216 Fighters/Carrier)
-6 Saratoga class Fleet Carriers [ADN] (100 Fighters/Carrier)
-0 Independence class Light Carriers (82 Fighters/Carrier) [10/month as of Apr/4281]
-18 Graf Zeppelin class Light Carriers (120 Fighters/Carrier) [being produced at a rate of 1/month]
-4 Devin class Light Carriers (96 Fighters/Carrier)
-13 Reprisal class Escort Carriers (60 Fighters/Carrier)
-6 Battlement class Escort Carriers (72 Fighters/Carrier)
-698 Conversion class Escort Carriers (48 Fighters/Carrier)
-36 Hermes class Escort Carriers [ADN] (20 Fighters/Carrier)
-0 Arc Royal class Cruiser-Carriers (120 Fighters/ship) [12/month beginning in Dec/4280, increased to 40/month in Feb/4281]
-0 Constitution class Heavy Cruisers (24 Fighters/Carrier) [15/month as of Mar/4281]
-0 Constellation class Heavy Cruisers [being produced at a rate of 12/month as of Dec/4280]
-152 Confederate class Heavy Cruisers [being produced at a rate of 12/month ending Dec/4280]
-15 Slamdike class Heavy Cruisers (36 Fighters/Ship)
-3 Tone class Heavy Cruisers
-78 Vicksburg class Heavy Cruisers [ADN]
-0 Achilles class Light Cruisers (16 Fighters/Carrier) [20/month as of Apr/4281]
-180 Stinger class Light Cruisers [being produced at a rate of 20/month]
-9 Sheppard class Light Cruisers
-32 Dorsetshire class Light Cruisers [ADN]
-48 Junaeu class Light Cruisers [ADN]
-8 Scorpio class Light Cruisers [ADN]
-24 Marathon class Light Cruisers [ADN]
-80 Hellstorm class Missile Cruisers [being produced at a rate of 20/month, increased to 48/month in Dec/4280]
-160 Trafalgar class Missile Cruisers
-20 Firestorm class Missile Cruisers
-7 Deathrain class Missile Cruisers
-80 Ticonderoga class Point-Defense and Fighter-Suppression Cruisers [being produced at a rate of 20/month]
-140 Aegis class Point-Defense and Fighter-Suppression Cruisers
-5 Altos class Point-Defense and Fighter-Suppression Cruisers
-12 Defender class Point-Defense and Fighter-Suppression Cruisers
-0 Starstrider class Fleet Destroyer (8 Fighters/ship) [40/month as of Apr/4281]
-180 Yubari class Fleet Destroyers [30/month]
-550 Fletcher class Fleet Destroyers
-13 Aggrippa class Fleet Destroyers
-328 Assailer class Torpedo Destroyers [30/month]
-240 Predator II class Destroyers [ADN]
-240 Predator class Destroyers [ADN]
-120 Kamikaze class EW Destroyers [ADN]
-260 Decatur class Point-Defense and Fighter-Suppression Destroyers [being produced at a rate of 30/month]
-4 Stalwart class Point-Defense and Fighter-Suppression Destroyers
-1,760 Yuguri class Frigates [Being Produced at a rate of 60/month]
-14 Gnat class Frigates
-400 Guardian class Destroyer-Escorts/Frigates [ADN]
-3,250 Serpent class Attack Ships [250/month]
-500 Valiant class Raider [ADN]
-29 Voidwolf Stealth Attack Boat [12/month]
-12 Bulwark class Monitors [4/month]
-100 Jehova class Missile-Ships [20/month]

Avalonian Replublic Fleet:

1 Avalonian Super-Dreadnought
2 Avalonian Battleships
28 Avalonian Heavy Cruisers
98 Avalonian Light Cruisers
183 Avalonian Destroyers

:: pokes Fenris towards AIM::

Fenris, Coyote, a word with both of you lupines.

In the mean time, it is my suggestion that neither of you make any further post on the subject.

God47, I want to apologize for the lack of response--considering the long delay, shall we just handle this OOC in this thread, with any other requisite details exchanged via PM?

It's cool.

PM me about your position on the Imps, plz.

Okay, I've probably not made this clear to everyone (sorry Steve!), but with the massive drawdown in forces in the ST-3 holdings that the USA carries ... there will be 'serious consequences' if they are attacked.

Hrmm, well, that was rather incomprehensible. See below.

Would it be considered impolite and/or imprudent to ask why?

Shrike: There is some question about the exact tonnages and production rates involved that's still being resolved. Yes, you're going to think everything even more hideous.


Fenris: To restate what made absolutely no sense before...

Ah, my concern is that with the latest post made--is this neglecting the defence of the Confederacy against foreign opponents in its own dimension, whereupon the heavy ships would be necessary? I have no problem with your buildup as such; rather, it is my desire to maintain not so much a scientific coherency to the SD (since that is impossible to begin with) but rather a logical coherency to the SD. That may also be impossible: but I am merely inquiring if the demands of both CON-5 and the Magellanite home universe have in fact been met with the new building programme, and if so, I am quite satisfied by it.

Actually, upon waking today, I realized an error in my math. That cruiser production per month needed be divided by a factor of 8, and the destroyers by a factor of 4 (forgot the results of multiple batches into the same tonnage production). [Now fixed.]

However, the MagCon navy is 1 dreadnought and 1 juggernaught below pre-war strength, and they are still building battleships apace.

Indeed, considering warship upgrades and refits, as well as the fielding of new dreadnought designs, most of which are heavier than pre-war ships, the current line of battle is stronger than its pre-war counterpart by a fair margin. Plus there's the 118 capital warships purchased from the ADN which MagCon *did* upgrade when they bought them (not to mention lighter ships).

On top of this, the fielding of more lighter warships (battleships, cruisers, and destroyers) allows more dreadnoughts to be retained at home.

Oh boy. More hyperubersuperoversized ships.

What's the little guy supposed to do?

Be subsumed by Imperium Americana, of course

*CAMs phongn*

*Hands Shrike TGG CCG card for Missile Horde O' Doom* Simple, don't play by their rules. :drevil:

Which would be great if hordes of missiles weren't an integral part of our rules...

Quiet Papist! You've yet to see a Byzantine Missile Horde O' Doom! :drevil:

Yeah right.

That map, now that I've looked at it, actually conflicts with canon knowledge of the ST universe. The biggest part is that during the Dominion War, Dominion ships would travel through Romulan space a little bit to attack Federation bases. That gives me the impression that the Romulans should have a sort of "space penninsula" going right between the Cardassians and Federation for maybe 50 to 100 light years or something.

There is also the issue of the Klingon Empire not being next to the Cardassian Union. Remember, the Klingons and Cardassians fought a major war? I am betting it is logistically impossible for either of them to have actually fought "above" the Federation or move "above/below" the Federation.

The map is a compromise of the massive canon and (quasi-official/fandom) contradictions in the ST universe, along with the SD additions to the ST universe, which piled up into, well, total chaos. So keep that in mind when you look at it - we couldn't accomadate everything, so we had to accomadate the biggest and most important things and then still make it work, which was nearly impossible.

For the Klingon invasion of the Cardies, it is assumed (in SD terms) that the reason they had to use a third of their fleet was to deliver a knockout blow swiftly and seize enough territory to make up for the lack of an easy route of supply, and, also, that they were staging out of some minor nation near Bajor in the area of unclaimed space there.

Romulan space may extend vertically over the Ferengi to explain for Dominion raids. The Romulans, it is postulated here, expanded very rapidly against weak and technologically primitive races, but sort of just "curved around" the more advanced Ferengi and Tholians, having the resources to box them in territorially in a race to grab colonies, so it's hardly implausible.

Could you guys stop, you know, wanking about destroying the evil communist UFP and how much of a tizzy you threw the ST universe into or how the Race is getting reamed up the ass and actually pay attention to where everyone else is?

Thanks.

That reminds me. Get on AIM please, Shrike.

A few days of Army Reserves. I'll be back by next week.

Ah, good point.

That is why 2D maps are bad.