I still insist that the current Tyranid Hive Fleets are in fact Scout Fleets. We have six so far mentioned. Those being the famous Behemoth, Kraken and Levithian. With three smaller and much earlier fleets being Tiamat, Ouroboris and Colossus. We also know that there is a Hive Fleet Apophis and Harbinger. In the 4th Edition rulebook it mentions that the Tyranids drift through the void between galaxies in millions of ships and each ship contianing untold numbers of monstrosities. Also is the fact that each new fleet seems to be larger then the last and uses new tactics to accomplish it's goals. Oh and thank you Primus. I was just paging through the Codex when you found it. Saves me some time to find that Map I have somewhere. Also the Stark Report seems to be accurate from my re-reading. And there is nothing to suppose it being Paranoia.
What's so difficult about eradicating the Tyranid fleet? Even if the majority of the superweapons were not yet invented, there is one that already existed since 1,000,000 BBY (according to Wookiepedia, that is). Guess what it is? The Centerpoint Station. Track the fleet as it progresses through the Holonet. When it comes close to a star (herd them there if need be) and there's no way they'll be able to know that they are being targeted by a star-destroying weapon, then send every star that they pass close to into novas and supernovas. Lets see how the oh-so-mighty Tyranid fleet handle that. And once the fleet is in tatters, send the ISD for mop-up operations including orders to BDZ any planet where any stragglers are encountered. Oh, and send word to the Maw facility to start cranking out more superweapons. The Empire need not to play nice since they're...well, not comprised of nice persons anyway.
Given the threat the galaxy is in for I doubt the populations who has lived under the rule of the Empire would choose this moment to start riots. The Imperial holovids of the nids would be spread all over the galaxy, and I think people would prefered to be protected by Imperial ships rather then be unprotected.
And I think the Rebel Alliance would put aside their hostilities with the Empire and vice versa for this moment.
Centerpoint wasnt discovered to be an effective weapon till the New Republic Era. Until such a time it's just thought to be a very large space station of an antiquated date.
I wonder how the Tyranids would fair during either the Clone Wars Era or KoTOR Era. (During the Mandalorian Wars and Jedi Civil War)
I think worse in the Clone Wars era. Here are two galactic scale powers with awesome numbers of troops/droids duking it out and entire worlds and sectors are essentially reduced to rubbles and rendered lifeless. And many major shipyards churning out thousands of ships. And if the Tyranids still comes into Hutt Space the Confederation are the ones who are going to be hit first and their response will be fast, hard and deadly. In the Kotor era then their chances are far lower so I guess 60/40.
Everyone so far seems to be neglecting the fact that yes the Empire will have better ships one for one. They seem to be neglecting that the Tyranids WILL be boarding those ships and the moment they do that ship is effectively destroyed.
From what I've seen you're all overestimating Imperial security and underestimating the patience of a Genestealer Cult, though perhaps not given the scenario presented: it really does leave the 'stealer cult very little room to maneuver. There isn't much room for a full on "Genestealer Cults VS The Empire" thread here though, because we haven't been given that kind of a time frame: All I will say is that given sufficient time a Genestealer Cult is exactly and precisely the sort of thing that could bring the Empire to its knees. As I have said though, that isn't happening here: The Hive Fleet is attacking, and since the biggest advantage the Genestealer Cults have (to wit: the fact that nobody knows there's anything wrong with having Genestealers wandering about or having humans with trace Genestealer genetic material) is lost immediately when the Hive Fleet attacks, the Empire should win this one. A shame, really, that you'd all got so close to the correct conclusion before I arrived. This could have been a lot of fun to play Devil's Advocate with...
*Points to Star Destroyer vs Asteroid.* *Points to the Tyranid ship twice the size of an Imperial Star Destroyer that WILL be boarding* *Points to the thick clouds of spores that serve as shields to the Tyranids and can take down Imperium Strike Craft let alone the weak as piss armour of TIEs.*
Again, I'd like to point out Tyranid Hive Ships surviving partial bombardments from Strike Cruisers. It'd take a shit-ton of fighters & bombers to take down a Hive Ship, so using a SD would really be in the best interest of the 'Wars side.
Ahem. A Tyranid capital ship IS the boarding craft. The Tentacles and other... appendages... of a Tyranid ship are how they board enemy ships. Sure they use Mycetic spores as well but i've never seen any evidence that those fighters and bombers could take down hundreds to thousands to millions of them.
If the nid cap ships are the boarding craft then few of them will get within grappling range after the first few engagements. Don't you also have to keep up multiple teratons of fire per second to keep an ISD's shields down?
It really depends on the starting numbers for the Nids and just how long they get to munch on the Hutts before the Empire reacts.
Bullshit. Tyranid ships are capable of killing IoM warships which fight at relativistic velocities. Their ranged weapons are only "safe" after 4'000 odd kilometres *extreme 40k spitting-match for space battles* And there has never been anything to suggest that you need multiple teratons of firepower to keep an ISDs shields down. Or even that they stop physical objects. (Again points at the ISD that was at least mission-killed by a stray rock.) EDIT: I'm not even suggesting that the Tyranids could win overall. Space IS and WILL be their greatest weakness. But to think of it as a turkey-shoot is just naive.
From what I have heard in various debates the ship's shields weren't even raised. It wont be a threat since the Imperial captain wont be dumb enough to manouver his ship to get close enough to be boarded. And the good thing torpedoes can be rigged to detonate when they enter the cloud as they explodes, huge amount of the nearby spores will be vaporized making huge gaps in their defenses so second salvos of torpedoes can enter and strike the hull directly. Or use seismic charges which would vaporise the spores and gut open the Tyranid ships. And here we start using tactics, sending in small remote controlled capital ships fully loaded with explosives, coming out of hyperspace close to the Tyranid Hive ship and not giving them time to react as the ship crashes in to it at a high speed and explodes. And the same tactic can be made with even larger ships. Sending in a empty star destroyer remote controlled with it's guns still blazing and when the Tyranid ships tries to board it, the ship explodes taking out every Tyranid ship in it's close enough proximity. There are so much much the various Galactic powers can do to protect themselves successfully.
IoM has weapons with ranges up to (and beyond, for some) 300,000km in Battlefleet Gothic. They had to put out an official warning to get the fuck away from 'Nids once they get within 6,000km of them. I'll let you put that together as you wish. Once more, I'd like to point out Hive Ships sustaining high-gigatons-to-teratons of damage and remaining functional. So basically Nova Cannons? This might work, depending on the force of the explosion. The IoM managed to do something similar with the Dominus Astra, but that was an overloading of the Warp Drives and sucking a fleet into hell is not quite the same as shoving a large explosive into its midst.
In Warriors of Ultramar the IOM sent a promethium refining structure into a Nid fleet and detonated it when a hive ship grappled it. When they tried the same tactic again the Nids swarmed over the structure and shot it back at the IOM fleet. Of course the GE has the advantage of remote detonators. edit: And the point of the torpedoes isn't to hit the Hive ships, it's to vaporise the defensive spore cloud.
And never once have I seen canon evidence that supported that. Yes because he's going to happily linger out of his weapons range because if he doesn't the big scary ship will eat him. Literally. If he gets close enough to engage he risks being boarded and Tyranids are far more maneuverable than the Empires ships have shown. (Three Star Destroyers crashing into one another.... by accident.... the Tyranids will have a feast.) Ah right the "Party A" will do shit they've never done before and never demonstrated the intelligence to even consider because "Party B" would kick their ass. Despite us telling you, despite the Tyranids advantages, they would be on borrowed time in Space Engagements. (The biggest change the Empire would have to make would be engaging from maximum possible range, and doing what they can to make even that better. Others would be to wait until the Hive Fleet is in position and feeding on an infested world, during that time the Hive Fleet is at its most vulnerable, especially as the Hive Ships themselves are almost all busy having their meal.
The Empire doesn't need to get close to start opening fire. They have ranges in the very least comparable to the IoM, so like them they could sit at range and fire all day. Problem being that eventually the Empire Ships are going to need to move away, and if they make a mistake calculating when it could be costly the first time(s).
