Discussion in 'Vs. Debates' started by yeyinde, Jun 26, 2012.
6 on 6
Starting distance 500m
Battleground is a barren plain
Which side wins?
Can't Dark Templars stay perma-cloaked? How are the Spiders supposed to fight that?
My opinion...the Eldar are pretty much all psychic and I'm pretty sure their helmets have sensor arrays
It would be nice if someone more knowledgeable about the Eldar would chip in.
WS have guns while DT use CC weapons. DT have cloaks, but WS might be able to "see" them.
If the Warp Spiders can detect the DT with a fair degree of precision, the Warp Spiders have a distinct advantage IMO
Well...Well uhmm...A Warp Spider Exarch attached to the squad can detect cloaked units.
There isn't a great deal specific to Warp Spiders sensory capability, although Aspect Warriors generally have the most advanced kit.
Striking Scorpions are described with broad spectrum sensory capabilities in Path of the Eldar, and it suggests this includes psychic energies, as the character is warned not to look at a Webway portal. The "dreadlocks" of Scorpions are also supposed to be "sensor bundles" according to the 5th edition codex.
Dire Avengers have something similar, a "pan spectral" targeting array with the ability to find and track multiple targets and feed the info to a HUD, Shadow Spectres have a sensor hood with similar capabilities, both according to the Doom of Mymerea.
It would seem unlikely that Warp spiders don't at least have something similar, particularly with their warp teleportation.
Do they actually fight perma-cloaked anywhere but the gameplay?
Frontline Issue 1 and 4, as examples, if the games aren't proof enough.
"Sensory equipment" without more detail doesn't mean much, considering every single marine has sensory equipment. Telepathy and the like doesn't seem to work either, considering Dark Templar can hide from other protoss.
Its almost like I wrote about multi-spectral stuff, and you didn't read it? Not particularly specific, but you didn't have to pretend I basically said, "they've got eyes". Hell, "advanced sensors" is pretty much the phrase used to describe stuff that can detect cloaked units in Starcraft, so don't give me any guff about stuff "not having much detail"
Don't start off silly please.
Could you link the pictures you mean, and I'll try and get some more info from my end.
What Marine stuff are you speaking of, in the context of not seeing Dark Templar?
Had a look at RT:Fallen Suns, and Aspect armour incorporates Auspex, and Aspect warriors have "Heightened Senses" themselves, akin to having telescopic sights, or computer augmented hearing.
Auspex is a term used to describe " devices that are used to detect energy emissions, motion,
and biological life signs." (note, bio-signs is not the same as IR or low light, thats Preysight/darksight, which they've got anyway ) Bio-rhythm seems like it means heartbeat or other internal noises?
Examples used of things detected include things normally beyond the range of human detection, invisible gases, radiation, etc.
Besides going transparent/camouflaged, dark templar seem to have a second method of turning invisible.
When not under direct sunlight, a dark templar can "meld into the shadows", and literally shape pieces of darkness into a tangible object, as demonstrated by Zeratul's retinue during Tassadar's Shadow Walk trial:
For Zeratul's own shadow-bending feats,
look at the 1st and 4th to 7th quotes in post #73 in the Captain Titus/MC/Predators vs. Zeratul/Ghost Kerrigan/Jim Raynor thread.
basically, he could do all the above and more without having to step into a shadow ... by summoning the shadows to him.
If I remember correctly, in "Do Not Fear the Reaper", Lassatar was cloaked throughout his fight with Nero. The latter threw a bomb at Lassatar, probably hoping to catch the dark templar with AoE damage, but Lassatar emerged unscathed thanks to his shield.
I don't have the manga with me at this moment.
EDIT: I've read through the manga again.
Turns out Lassatar did not cloak during the fight, as he had to draw Nero's attention away from Kern's family.
He made up for this with sheer speed.
Nero's gunshots could not hit him at all, even after his shield had been seemingly taken out by the bomb.
Hoho, it doesn't take much for you to jump off butt-hurt cliff these days, does it?
I read about the "multi-spectral" sensors, and yet a replied the way I did. Why? Because "multi-spectral" just means you can see in different spectrums. So can basic marines. Hence why "multi-spectral" doesn't count for much, without any further elaboration. I thought this would be obvious, but then again some people need a little more elaboration then others.
Unfortunatly I can't link to physical copies of mangas. But I'm sure you can find these mangas on the net by now.
Night vision, motion sensors, IR, heat vision, sound location, targetting assistance, telescopic view, etc. None of these work.
I suppose you could go further by mentioning Ghost sensors and how they too don't work, which includes see-through-walls technology, psionic detection, etc.
And which of these would you suppose is enough to detect Dark Templar? Biorythmn sensors sounds a bit comical though.
How about this, can they see invisible creatures in-universe?
So speaks the chap who swore off posting about anything but starcraft because he kept getting his arse kicked
Regardless, its hardly "butthurt" to point out that you were a bit dishonest with even your opening post. I ask again, try not to make every debate something you get so silly over.
Obviously "sensors" doesn't necessarily mean you can see in different spectrums, which is why I qualified it. If you think that basic marines have similar capabilities, then you should have been clear. I understand that english isn't your first language, and that you sometimes falter when it comes to details.
Really, they are hosted on line legally somewhere? Google fails me, could you post a link? (This is what I mean about your issues with the English language, obviously I wasn't asked for a link to the physical copy. That would be silly.)
Failing that, you could post a scan?
Well, assuming you are just gathering the information to confirm your post, and not just leaving me hanging waiting for evidence, we do know what can detect Dark Templars.
Highly evolved eyeballs!
Motion tracking spider mines, which apparently work on cloaking tech
Well, "energy detectors" is a bit generic I suppose, but its difficult to say what can, since you haven't really given much information on DT cloaks, beyond "I say so". Your rep for evidence is poor, so could you give me some actual info, then I can answer that question.
Obviously biorhythm stuff isn't quite what you think it is. As usual, I hope I can guide you past this silly mistakes you make with your english.
Last I checked the recent few debates we've had ended with you running away. I can quote them if you want? And I can't say I remember ever swearing off posting anything about Starcraft, probably because that's never happened. But don't let reality intrude on your own fantasies, I like you better when you're off in your own little world. And not to worry, I'm sure you'll eventually get it if you just keep on trying. Though you should perhaps pick your fights better. When you're claiming things you have no evidence for things tend to end badly for you. You should know this by now given that's how the last few debates ended.
Oh, and there is nothing "dishonest" about my opening post. I pointed out that you're something of an idiot if you think "multi-spectral" somehow magically solves the invisibility problem given what it means and that marines also have "multi-spectral" sensors. It's not my fault that you're not bright enough to realize this without going into details on what "multi-spectral" means and why it doesn't matter as a result.
And judging by this early start, I think it's safe to say that I'm not the one with the English problem, given how you seemed to be completely oblivious as to what "multi-spectral" means.
Legally? Of course. In exchange for money you can get them from Amazon.
There are easier ways to get them too. I took me all of three minutes to find such an easier way... But apparently this is not something you're willing to do. And of course we both know you're not actually interested in acquiring them. Why bother getting something that disproves your theories, eh? You're more interested in sitting there dismissing evidence on the basis that you haven't seen it (which is a fallacy, by the way).
And no, I can't scan them, since I don't have a scanner. And when I took pictures of them with my phone last time you kept bitching about the quality, so that's apparently a no go too. I guess there's no pleasing a princess.
Speaking of which. Can you provide citations for everything you've said so far, about the oppositions sensors I mean? No, quotes won't do, you tend to be very unreliable at quoting stuff after all. And no I don't fancy getting all these things myself either. Could you post scans of them? Super high resolution scans too, since I don't like bad quality stuff? This is fair, no? I mean it's what you're demanding of me so you should be able to replicate it too, right?
Alright? Am I to assume that the opposition in this case is able to match these?
You're not serious, are you? You're making this too easy for me.
WR, let me explain this very simple basic fact for you for the billionth time -- you're the one claiming that the opposition can detect Dark Templar. This means you provide the evidence. So far you've whined about "multi-spectral" and "energy" sensors, both of which are fairly useless terms given what they mean, and also useless because everything from the basic marine upwards has these things. So far you have zero credible evidence at your disposal. I'm not sure how you intend to champion your argument or try to prove it, and I don't care, since I'm not the one with the burden of proof. I can just sit back and laugh every time you try to shift said burden of proof.
EDIT: Oh and before I forget. I asked you a question last post that you neglected to answer. I asked you if the Dark Templar's opposition can see through cloaking systems in-universe. There are lots of cloaking stuff in WH40K, after all. Granted, this is not exactly a sure fire way to establish anything, but it's better then "I think they should be able to just because".
Oh, oh, oh, don't tell me! Let me guess? Obviously biorythm doesn't mean what I think it is, it means what you think it does. And naturally you think it means something that will help you in this debate, right? You should try stand-up comedy, I bet you'd be good at it. Unintentionally perhaps, but still. Oh, and don't you mean wikipedia's english skills in this case? All I did was type in the term you used into wikipedia and that's what popped up.
l33telboi, grow up. He asked you to provide somewhere he can view the scans, you are now just being obstinate and not providing it, and then lawyering his comment about obtaining it "legally" and pointing him to Amazon. And then you demand he posts you scans when you aren't doing the same, instead of allowing quotes to be used(with proper citation).
Sorry, but the levels to which you are going to demand extraordinary levels , is extraordinary.
Please stop doing this, and just provide some scans of the manga(because there is a difference between posting a quote from a novel with citations, and something coming from a graphic medium).
As to both of you(yes, you too W_R), be more civil, and get rid of the attitude, though to be perfectly honest, I'm seeing a lot more ego from you l33telboi.
Its always interesting that you make the same claim in each debate. But hey, go for it, if you must define winning a debate by the bloke who posts last, fair play. I know your standards are dubious, and your history on SB reflects this slightly weird spin you put on stuff.
Erm, you made no reference to multi-spectral sensors in your opening post, that was kinda my point. Are you really going to defend to the last something because you weren't correct in your phrasing?
I don't think I particularly claimed it "magically solved the invisibility problem" either, could you post where I said that?
Its really unfortunate you seem to think I should take into account something not already stated in the thread, such as Marines having some sort of thus far, undefined sensory capability, when I'm replying to you.
You haven't posted anything but your own say so for that yet BTW, so yet again, your strategy seems to be to try and mess about with silliness, rather than just posting information you're asked for.
I hate to tell you this, but thats not really hosting online, unless there is a kindle issue or something similar. You really are struggling with the english today!
Can you stop poncing about and just tell me where to get them from, since you keep talking about an "easy way" for me to go fetch your evidence for you, but refuse to talk about it!
hahahaha, so you "can" get some images online, but refuse to do it just in case I can't see what you are talking about?
I like how you got a preemptive "quality" CYA statement in there as well.
No problem man, I've gone back and edited in the specific novels and books for my quotes if I've missed them anywhere Obviously I'm not going to pay much attention to your squealing about how I've got to do hi-res images. That you would insist on this simply because I asked you for some links, and evidence for multiple unsourced claims shows how silly you get.
Didn't I ask you not to be silly. Also, I should point out that scans of an image that you claim shows something that supports your argument, isn't an extraordinary request for evidence. Its pretty basic.
On the other hand, insisting on hi-resolution images of stuff I have already quoted, because you are bum-pained about being questioned is frankly silly and childish, and clearly not what I am demanding of you.
A simple, legible and clear image supporting your claim is fine for me.
If you are asking, I would say Motion tracking is a given, I um, already mentioned that? I'm glad you thought better of it, and put my reference to motion tracking back in BTW, I guess snipping it was too much even for you!
Freethinker, let me explain this very simple, basic fact for you. I didn't claim anything of the sort. I responded with some information about Eldar equipment, when someone asked about it. I've also asked some questions of you, specifically your claims about what "can't " detect Dark Templar. And the evidence about their cloaks being on all the time, even when slicing people up, which you've also refused to post.
This will help us in the debate, but if you are refusing to post any such evidence, I can't really say can I?
I'm terribly sorry, I must have missed it. However I must point out I've already posted that Auspex allows folks to detect things not normally visible to the human eye. Not all cloaking systems are the same, so I wouldn't want to insist that since you can detect say, a Lictor, you can detect a Dark Templar, without going into specifics.
I'm glad you agree.
since you think "biorhythm" is some sort of pseudoscience thing about the "cycles of the body" and is refered to as "bio-signature" as well, it would be really silly to claim it meant some pseudo-science theory.
PS, Wikipedia isn't always great, you probably shouldn't use it as the basis for your claims.
When you've got some evidence, come back and we'll chat okay?
Since we were asked to be civil, I'm going to avoid the baiting, if you don't mind. This means I'll only reply to the parts where you're making a point. If you think I neglected something, point it out.
I'd also like to start with the above because it really kinda affects the entire debate.
So let me get this straight: You haven't claimed that they can detect dark templar, and this isn't your position? That's good. See I haven't said they "can't" detect Dark Templar either. I just pointed out why the suggestions so far don't work. But if indeed you're not maintaining that they can detect dark templar, then there's no need to argue. Just remember, that if you want to claim they can see dark templar, you need the supporting evidence, so far, there's no reason to believe they can see dark templar.
Let me try to explain it again, since clearly you're not getting it. "Multi-spectral" sensors doesn't really mean anything. Neither does "energy" sensors. Your argument is pretty literally "they should detect Dark Templar because they have sensors of unquantifiable capabilities". This is why I put "sensory equipment" in quotation marks, because that's literally all it adds up to. And as such I've pointed out to you that "sensory equipment" is something you find on pretty much everything in Starcraft. The bog standard marine has "energy" sensors. He has "multi-spectral" sensors in many different shapes and forms. Yet he cannot detect Dark Templar, thus there's no reason to believe that the opposition can either. Is this clear enough for you?
Now then, if you want to argue that the opposition can see Dark Templar, then please provide evidence that would actually suggest they can. All I need to do, and have done so far, is to point out why your theories are flawed. It's not up to me to prove a negative.
Sorry, there are no legal copies to be had on the net. We both know this.
All I can do is point you to Frontline Issue 1 and 4, the stories "Why We Fight" and "Voice in the Darkness". I can quote the dialogue in those panels too, but since they're manga, dialogue doesn't show everything:
Why We Fight: A group of marines advance on a Xel'Naga Temple, suddenly one of them loses his arm, and they start dying left and right. They order a comsat beam to see the Dark Templar assaulting them. Dialogue during this:
Marine 1: "There it is! And not an enemy in sight! AAAAH!"
Marine 2: "Holy God!"
Marine 3: "Cloaked units! Cloaked units!"
Marine 4: "This is Charlie Squad to Command! I need air support and comsat on my coordinates! Now!"
Command: "Acknowledged, comsat data en route.
Marine 4: "Visors down and targeting up! There you are, all units-- weapons free!"
Voice in the Darkness: A Dark Templar creeps up on a void zombie in cloaked form, intending to kill him silently, but the void zombie sees through the cloak. Dialogue during this:
Zombie: "As for you... little thing... did you truly think you could hide from me."
Dark Templar: "Impos-- Ugggh!"
Zombie: "You may walk in shadow... but I am shadow!"
Just to be clear on the matter. This is one of those times when you're the one who should be presenting evidence. You're saying that Dark Templar can't attack while cloaked. This is in stark contrast to their abilities in the game, and indeed in stark contrast to cloaking technology in general. There is no unit that can't attack while cloaked in Starcraft, and there's no reason to believe they can't. In essence you're suggesting that this cloaking behaves in a way previously unseen in technology like it. When you do that you typically require evidence, not just "what if?"
And as I already mentioned, but you apparently missed, marines also have motion trackers in their suits, as per Speed of Darkness. Similarly it also depends on what type of motion sensor we're talking about. The spider mines are underground, so they probably detect footseps and the like.
In other words -- no. They can't detect cloaked units in-universe? Pretty heavy evidence against them being able to do it in this scenario.
You're confusing me with wikipedia again. I just put the phrase you used into the wiki to see if there is some official definition of it, and what I got was the page posted. Truth is, biorythm is another one of those things that doesn't really mean anything without further definition. Same applies to bio-signature. How is that detected? What is it detecting? Will this work on the dark templar. These are things you need to know if you want to say that they can detect dark templar.
Oh look. It's a Dark Templar "Warp Spider"!
That does show us two ways to detect the Dark Templar in fluff:
1. Comsat scan.
2. Another being with stronger Void powers.
That said, it is unlikely that the Warp Spider has any of those.
Apparently not very well. I said it doesn't work for graphic mediums, and you turn around just post the dialogue and "explain" what you see.
So clearly the point wasn't taken.
Then what am I supposed to do? There are no legal copies available on the net and I have no scanner. The best I could do is take a picture with my camera phone and post it on the net, but last time I did that I got hounded because the quality was too bad.
EDIT: But just in case you still want camera phone pics, here. Mind you it's a hell of a hassle to get these pictures on the computer, and the program that interfaces with the phone is a bitch and the half, so you can see why I don't enjoy taking these pictures just to have someone go "not good enough."
The above sequence is what I quoted earlier under "Why We Fight", the bubbles there say what I wrote earlier.
I'm really not playing the game of restating my position every other post because you are trying to turn this into another drawn out grindfest. My posts are clear, get on with it, and provide evidence for your claims.
See above. Stop mithering please and get on with it. Multi-spectral capability obviously indicates seeing in more than one spectrum. i.e. More than visible light. That you can post "it can be summed up as sensory equipment, because thats all it means" is simply wilful ignorance. It isn't uncivil of me to point this out I feel.
Your reluctance to substantiate your claims with regards the capabilities of DT cloaks is obviously an obstacle here. You "just pointing out what doesn't work" still comes with a burden of proof.
I've bolded the bits you keep posting about, without actually substantiating. Is that clear enough for you?
I'd also point out that when I expanded my information about their Auspex capabilities, I gave examples, radiation, gases, biological life signs. I appreciate you need to try and needle me about little bits like that as part of your style, but I'd ask you drop the attitude, and be objective about this. but your insistance on claiming its "useless" isn't really justified. I'll happily continue argue about it with you if you like, but I'll continue to add information as I post that could be relevant.
Radiation is obviously not visible light, you don't need a special tool to detect that in the context of a battlefield scanner. The reference to things invisible to the human eye gives us basically the electromagnetic spectrum, how much of it is unclear. "dangerous" radiation is specified in Rogue Trader, and the description of a bionic eye in Wargear says it "allows a broader visible spectrum". The user can "see in the dark" and "detect radiation" including the strength of any radiation grenade weapon nearby. Terminator auto-senses are auspex equivalents according to Deathwatch and they include ultraviolet scanning. Apothecary helms use IR imaging and X-ray scanning to serve diagnostic tools, which lets them simulate a preysight capability, which an auspex duplicates. One hopes this isn't exactly on all the time, I would assume the IR imaging would serve for the Preysight element.
Invisible gases probably reflects this description of Power armour auto-senses.
Signs of biological life is seperate from these, It could incorporate all of the above, thermal imaging for heat signatures, respiratory byproducts etc that fit the profile of living organisms the auspex "knows".
Since it detects electromagnetic fields, it also fits as a device to detect biological electromagnetic fields. The biologically generated signature of a living organism. I think the phrase used in Wargear " It can detect heat, radiation, and most forms of energy given off by vehicles or living organisms" meshes very well with what I've said.
Hilariously, biological electromagnetic fields are associated with the "biorhythm" madness you linked in an attempt to be silly, so thanks for the link! But obviously detecting electromagnetic fields isn't silly in itself.
Well, I don't know what to tell you , you've thundered at me that its a fallacy to ignore information I don't have, but you really haven't proven much of anything so far. " This thing I've got but nobody else can see" is a pretty classic debate copout, so what on earth do you expect me to do with this?
I'd normally go with a bit of give and take in a versus debate, but you won't budge on anything, and you've admitted before you are willing to misrepresent things because you think "the opposition" is doing so.
Doesn't leave me much option to take stuff on faith man.
Just to be clear on the matter, I asked a specific question, can they attack whilst cloaked anywhere else other than the game.
Your statement that there is no unit that can't attack whilst cloaked is difficult to accept when we have an example of Kerrigan "reappearing" every time she stabs someone or shoots someone. (as well as an example otherwise)
One point I hadn't considered is that cloaks and shields displace particles like smoke and dust. As Aspects can apparently "see" heat, invisible gases etc, they could perceive the flow of air currents? Bit "thin" (lols) but interesting. Whilst I'm thinking about indirect methods, Marines adjust their auto-sense visuals (don't forget, Aspects have auto-senses as well, its described as equivalent to Auspex) to alter the contrast of their HUD so they can "see" the visual distortion that accompanies stealthed units.
Given their mobility advantage, they could probably exploit that pretty well I suppose. The context of the debate isn't enough to discern that methinks.
Firstly, you claimed Marines had an entire range of sensory capabilities, including motion trackers.
Lets be clear, this is the first time you even mentioned a source for it. You seem to think simply asking questions of you is an insult. Since I asked you several times for a quote and you refused, I didn't "miss" anything. Still no quote either.
Third time I asked for multiple things and you've dodged or refused mate.
Anyway, I take it you are claiming that "motion tracker" in this context means some sort of vibration sensor? So something that detects the vibrations of footsteps would detect Dark Templar, or simply the noise they make potentially.
Interestingly, The Auspex Imperial Guard have available can detect the vibrations of impacts, in this case a 200km distant tyranid landing creature, although not a mycetic spore apparently, since it performs a controlled landing. Its probably much more powerful version, given the distance, but it establishes another string to the bow of Auspex.
One that apparently would detect Dark Templar. Enhanced aural abilities might hear them as well, although at this point, it looks like a collective approach of multiple sensor feeds might the thing.
This rather reminds me of the time you decided EMP couldn't work against Protoss, because not all EMP is made equal etc. I sense you don't want the same sort of logic to apply here though.
And in "other words" only works if you summerise something correctly, not if you just make up what you want my statement to mean. For example, Auspex/Scanners allow folks to detect and target Eldar equipped with Jigsaw fields. (Wargear) and Cameleoline. AKA, active holographic sensor spoofing of targetting equipment, and "invisibility", and what amounts to an invisibility cloak.
Its difficult for me to compare and contrast, because of your point blank refusal to provide basic information to back up your claims, followed by continuous dodging.
I probably didn't, I think at this point, wikipedia is a lot better sourced than you are! I took a look at biological signs of life further up.
Try quoting properly. There's an alarm function on this forum but it doesn't work unless you're quoting someone correctly. And I'm not so much restating my position as I am pointing out that you carry the burden of proof if you want to say they can see through Dark Templar cloaks. Similarly the evidence for my position has been provided.
No. It's the unfortunate truth. Multi-spectral and energy sensors means exactly nothing without further clarification. They mean even less considering everything from marines upwards have multi-spectral and energy sensors. The simple IR vision marines have counts as multi-spectral sensors, not to mention sensor towers and what they have.
If you want to say these sensors can see through Dark Templar cloaks just because they're multi-spectral then marines would also be able to see through cloaks. But they can't.
No it doesn't, because then you'd be asking me to prove a negative. If you want to claim they can see through the cloaks then find something to substantiate that. "Because they have sensors" is not good enough given that everything presented so far can be replicated with bog-standard marines.
[uote]I'd also point out that when I expanded my information about their Auspex capabilities, I gave examples, radiation, gases, biological life signs.[/quote]
And which of these do you think would work and why? Radiation? We already know that they're not visible on thermal vision, and don't show up on radar, so unless there's greater reasoning behind this then it doesn't work. Gases? What gases? You need to clarify. If you think the protoss emit some form of gas that the opposition can detect then state what that gas might be and why they would be detected. Biological lifesigns? Again, what does that mean, what specifically are the sensors looking for?
Well I don't think Dark Templar are radioactive to any significant degree, and we've already been over electromagnetic radiation.
Let me just stop you there. Unless you can specifically prove that the capabilities of one system is also present on another, you need not bother. Just because Termiantor auto-senses are the equivalent to auspex stuff, doesn't mean they replicate every feat or work exactly the same. You've mentioned space marine sensors and even IG sensors to support your position... but they are not what the Dark Templar are fighting in this case.
Oh, and you realize of course that you're holding a double standard here, don't you? If you can take a Terminator's sensors and say they exist on the auspex stuff, then I can take ghost cloaking devices and attribute their function to that of dark templar, because they too are each others equivalents.
Also, ultraviolet and X-ray are a form of electromagnetic radation, which you already mentioned.
It detects various radiation emissions, yes, you've said this a few billion times by now.
Uh-huh. So it's the same story as last time. The pictures are too bad quality for you? Even though I admittedly have a crappy camera on my phone, I have to say that the pictures posted in this case are good enough to demonstrate dark templar cloaked and attacking.
Ghosts remain cloaked when attacking, unless they specifically chose to reappear. If you ever played Starcraft 2 you probably even saw Nova stabbing Tosh to death... while cloaked. Truly there is no unit in Starcraft that has been show to have to drop the cloak when attacking.
For good measure, from Spectres: "Still cloaked, Nova raced forward, took quick aim at the zergling on Godard’s back, and fired, using her psionic abilities to teek the round slightly to the right as the marine stumbled again. The alien’s head exploded and the creature dropped, twitching, to the ground. Not breaking stride, she leapt over a zergling carcass and put ten rounds below the bony carapace of a roach, avoiding its steaming blood as it jerked and writhed in the dust. Before if could regenerate, she met its alien, glassy stare and sent a teek blast directly into its skull, killing it instantly."
Not so much thin as it is obvious grasping at straws. If they can "see" air currents, then no doubt that would be said. Similarly I have a hard time figuring out why these can't see invisible critters in 40K if indeed they can see displaced air currents. Far as I know cloaking doesn't make you intangible in 40K.
Dark templar don't have a distortion on them, far as I know. Unless they're using the weird chamelon thing described in Queen of Blades.
You've been in a billion debates regarding Starcraft before, and it's been mentioned and quoted just as many times: "The display on the inside of his visor began to flash insistently. The motion sensors had picked up activity in the blackness of the spore tunnel that stretched before him, but Ardo’s mind seemed frozen, unable to grasp its importance."
I haven't refused providing anything. Quotes from novels I can do easy peasy, ask and you shall receive.
I don't know what they do. It's not clarified anywhere. They're motion detectors, but that means quite a few things. They detect hovering units, so you vibrations? Maybe, maybe not.
This sounds an awful lot like the novel where IG fight tyranids on some desert world, where they, among other things, get killed by invisible tyranids they can't see. And naturally these are IG, not Eldar.
Really? Is that why every post of mine so far has started with that exact same logic, "senors" and "sensors" doesn't need to be the same just because they're both called sensors? And you once again hold the contrary opinion, stating that auspex must be the same even though found on vastly different systems and other races?
Let me make this easy: Instead of throwing out a billion different suggestions that have already been mentioned and some of which you don't even know how work, how about you try and provide a single system and argue why it would be able to find Dark Templar? You've probably mentioned electromagnetic sensors a dozen times over in this thread, but repeating the same argument in different parts of the post does not mean you've provided two separate arguments.
Hey W_R, is Terrorsight still a thing SMs can use, or has it been completely forgotten to exist?
I'm pretty sure Boreas is still mentioned as having the Terrorsight system in his armour gear in Purging of Kadillus, so Gav Thorpe hasn't forgotten about it at least.
I think Terrorsight was mentioned to be a psyker thing in Decent of Angels. Though, that could be another `sight` that is mentioned then. I don't have the book on me, but it when the initiate fights his first monster before Dark Angels show up.
Separate names with a comma.