2K Games doing actual X-Com

bullethead

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer, aspiring CNC Man
SGTschlock said:
How did that work?


And I will admit. TU's representing both movement and shooting does lead to more static styles of combat. It sorta works with keeping enough TU's for reaction shots representing advancing more carefully, but it'd be interesting to try something different.
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Basically, at the start of your turn, you get to move your unit free of cost anywhere within a set movement radius. When it gets to its destination, you can either attack or have them sit there. If there's an enemy there, you attack and eat up a portion of a set number of energy "points" that are dedicated strictly to offensive action. Killing the enemy results in being able to move free of cost again, which is usually back towards the base you started from, since the energy points don't regen unless its for NPCs or specially upgraded units (something that's really irritating IMO).

When it's the enemy's turn, you get an option to counterattack (which eats up energy), defend (IIRC it doesn't cost energy), or dodge (which definitely doesn't cost energy).
 
SGTschlock

SGTschlock

What chivalry is this?
Adviser (NSFD)
bullethead said:
Basically, at the start of your turn, you get to move your unit free of cost anywhere within a set movement radius. When it gets to its destination, you can either attack or have them sit there. If there's an enemy there, you attack and eat up a portion of a set number of energy "points" that are dedicated strictly to offensive action. Killing the enemy results in being able to move free of cost again, which is usually back towards the base you started from, since the energy points don't regen unless its for NPCs or specially upgraded units (something that's really irritating IMO).

When it's the enemy's turn, you get an option to counterattack (which eats up energy), defend (IIRC it doesn't cost energy), or dodge (which definitely doesn't cost energy).
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Not sure that exactly would work in an X-com game, but it's definitely an interesting idea.


So the idea with this X-com game, is that the player has a free movement radius, which doesn't impact his ability to shoot. Though he can give up his ability to shoot for a second, extended movement radius. That actually makes allot of sense when you think about it. The regular movement of a trained soldier is always going to have him with his weapon ready to fire. The exception being if you're seriously trying to leg it while sprinting.

I'm actually kinda liking the sound of all this, since minor movement won't be penalizing your soldiers shooting capacity. Yes, it's streamlining...but I don't think it's bad streamlining.
 
bullethead

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer, aspiring CNC Man
Some new stuff from NeoGaf, obtained from a thread on the 2K forums:

•No action points. The game uses a move-and-shoot (or move-and-move) dynamic. They don't want people piddling around counting individual action points. Some will call this a concession to consolitis; others will call it useful streamlining.

•Soldiers can still panic, but not to the point of wiping the squad. Likewise, you'll never get plasma-bombed right out of the carrier. They want to make the game more fair, and those were specifically mentioned.

•The strategic layer is extremely robust. You still need to choose which countries to send missions to, which offers of aid (in exchange for more protection) you'll accept from which countries, which alien technologies you'll research, etc. The back-and-forth between tactical and strategic play remains at the heart of the game.

•Overwatch, duck-and-cover, etc. are all still very much present, tactically.

•You can research vehicles, which take the place of a squaddie. They don't gain XP and when they are destroyed they are lost for good, but they provide serious cover and firepower. One example given is a mobile heavy weapons platform that serves as a good overwatcher for a tactical advance.

•Sectoids and Mutons are in. Cyberdiscs and Thin Men are also mentioned. Evidently psionics are also in.

•Aliens have their own special perk-like abilities as well.
Overall it looks really fucking fantastic and I am now DAY ONE.

***

The article specifically cites a sniper spending their entire turn to take an aimed shot for Massive Damage. Perhaps it's more accurate to think of the game as having only two action points per turn, for Move-Shoot, or Move-Move, or Aim-Shoot, etc.

Gus, like I said, overwatch is in the game. In, in, in the game. You definitely can set up squaddies who haven't used all their actions in a turn, such that they can do overwatch and shoot the instant something comes into view.

Reloading costs an action, so it is a tactical consideration. Ducking into cover is the main positioning mechanic they mention. They also mention supppressive fire as another mechanic -- your heavy weapons guy can lay down a barrage that can paralyze pinned units (e.g. remove their actions). Grenades are in, wounding is in. Generally it doesn't sound like there are fewer tactical options, but rather that the bookkeeping is simplified.

***

(This part was by the author of the GI article)
Apologies if the article was unclear, but the deal is that sniper rifles are unusual in that they take a full turn to shoot. You can unlock a move-shoot perk for snipers at some experience level, but your basic sniper rifle takes a full turn to fire.

Ammo is abstracted. You're assumed to be carrying enough clips to reload as much as you want, but it takes a turn to do so. Suppressive fire is crazy awesome, for instance, but it burns through ammo like a mofo so you're borrowing turns down the road to kick ass now.

Body positions - AIUI you are assumed to be kneeling behind partial cover etc. They didn't go into a ton of detail here. Personally that's a level of control granularity that I'm not concerned about preserving, so long as I have other awesome ☺☺☺☺ that I can do and creative tactics to explore. Which from what I've seen will not be lacking.


So yeah, you only have one base. Building different bases has been removed, but you still buy satellite coverage (the new radar) and build hangars for interception in different countries. Your single base is like way more crazy awesome than any base from the original, though, and presents lots of opportunities for more decision-making in terms of digging deeper as well as what kind of expansion facilities you add on (see the screenshot of the "ant farm" that we put online Monday).
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Inquisitor Kard

Inquisitor Kard

Once Inquisitor Ryan
I was going to say not too happy about the one-base idea, but then it occurred to me that except for interceptions I ran all main operations out of my first base anyway. All the rest were just fighter bays and radars with defences and a group of squaddies for defence. (Unless I just used HWPs for defence on those bases)
 
Twitchy Artemis

Twitchy Artemis

Supreme Commander of Nanomagic.
Adviser (RP & Q)
It depends on how limited the bases size is for me, maybe with alien tech we could keep digging it deeper and deeper.

And I did use one other base, for pysionic training and manufacturing.
 
SGTschlock

SGTschlock

What chivalry is this?
Adviser (NSFD)
So bassically you're limited to one main base...but the base will be expanded, and you'll still have the option to get radar coverage via satellites, and build air bases to launch interceptions against enemy UFO's.


Ammo consolidation has been simplified to it seems. This isn't a bad thing I think, since even in the original UFO, running out of ammo for regular weapons wasn't to often a concern. So taking ammo out aside from more painstaking reloads, and allowing the characters to throw out more lead could be nice.

Twitchy Artemis said:
It depends on how limited the bases size is for me, maybe with alien tech we could keep digging it deeper and deeper.

And I did use one other base, for pysionic training and manufacturing.
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Well if you don't have to stockpile mountains of ammo for weapons, it seems you could get away with less storage space. So more room for other things.
 
Karazor

Karazor

The Monkey Underground
SGTschlock said:
Ammo consolidation has been simplified to it seems. This isn't a bad thing I think, since even in the original UFO, running out of ammo for regular weapons wasn't to often a concern. So taking ammo out aside from more painstaking reloads, and allowing the characters to throw out more lead could be nice.
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Blaster Bombs were a bitch to keep fed, but aside from that I've got no argument with this statement. I remember selling off heavy plasma clips by the truckload after about the halfway point, especially with my piracy strategy.
 
Twitchy Artemis

Twitchy Artemis

Supreme Commander of Nanomagic.
Adviser (RP & Q)
Im thinking infiltration units.

I wonder how much it would cost to field alien weapons then if they get rid of ammo, maybe you have to build an alien ammo making room in your base that has a elelrium per month upkeep?
 
Apollyon1184

Apollyon1184

Evil Porcine Liberal
Its cool they are taking aliens from more recent "mythos" and throwing them in there.

Are the Slendermen from that Marble Hornet ARG, or some other bit of UFOology?
 
Chaos Blade

Chaos Blade

Procrastinating Writer
probably some form of MiB, they were evem meant to be in the original XCom, from what I've read (we even have a pic of them)
 
Jace911

Jace911

Social Justice Slasher Villain
Apollyon1184 said:
Its cool they are taking aliens from more recent "mythos" and throwing them in there.

Are the Slendermen from that Marble Hornet ARG, or some other bit of UFOology?
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IIRC Slenderman started as a fake horror myth on SomethingAwful, then exploded into nightmare fuel when Marble Hornets and other videos on it started coming out.
 
SGTschlock

SGTschlock

What chivalry is this?
Adviser (NSFD)
They did mention there would be a number of scripted missions in the campaign, while the majority would be procedurally generated.

I'm guessing an early mission could be the players fighting with Slendermen to fight the aliens (and to act as a training mission against less dangerious enemies).

edit:Reading up on what Facehugger said in the 2k thread.

I'm generally ok with one big mega base, but I DO hope that the smaller air bases do at least allow you to station small teams in them along with interceptors. It'd be rather aggravating to fly in your guys half way around the world half the time for every mission.

Plus there was always the nifty lore behind all the different bases having their own names and the like.
 
macgalin

macgalin

Chaotic Evil
I for one hate idea of unlimited ammo - and i dont like changing of AP system.

TU system of orginal UFO was far from perfect (it was extremely tedious to search the map for last goddamn sectoid hiding in a broom closet) , but this looks like cutting your head to get rid of migraine. JA2 system would work better IMO, allowing you to explore when out of contact, and giving you total controli when engaged. Move/shoot looks like something from console jrpg, not proper tactical game.

Also, im slightly dissapointed by soldiers looking like bulky bald spess marheens with oversized weapons. Im also concerned about lack of helmets :(. If they at least had spiky anime hair i could understand, but they are bald, so they have no excuse whatsoever.

On the other hand for me the pinnacles of gear maneagement in games are "7.62 high calibre and JA 1.13, where you have control over everything including order of individual bullets in each magazine, so i guess im in the minority.

Goddamn console gamers, im sure its all their fault somehow. Those kids with no attention span to manage few magazines or count few action points. Grumblemumblegrumble

I can tolerate single main base as long as i can place interceptor bases around. Response times are important, and getting shafted of funding by china because your interceptors take forever to get there from the base in switzerland kind of sucks.

But still, im quite hopeful. Also i like the idea of mixing prescripted missions with generated ones.
 
Twitchy Artemis

Twitchy Artemis

Supreme Commander of Nanomagic.
Adviser (RP & Q)
It seems you can get more move and shoot points depending on class when you level up, and aimed shots require you to spend a move point on aiming.
And some weapons are aimed shots only.
 
Apollyon1184

Apollyon1184

Evil Porcine Liberal
HEY.

New screens and art, plus A VIDEO.





I love this shot. And I love how the diner or whatever got BLOWN THE FUCK UP.

In love with the new Skyranger, the new Interceptor I can take or leave. I really like what they did with the Mutons( around 3:45 in the video). They look way the hell less goofy while still being large purple dudes in green.

Apparently the blub about snipers having a grapple was incorrect, the armor the sniper was wearing has a grapple. Which is even better!
 
macgalin

macgalin

Chaotic Evil
What the hell? You start with 4 soldiers per mission limit?

OH COME THE FUCK ON, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT I DONT EVEN.:mad::rage:

Seriously, what are they doing?!
 
Fallen Angel

Fallen Angel

Jaded Misanthrope
Apollyon1184 said:
HEY.

New screens and art, plus A VIDEO.





I love this shot. And I love how the diner or whatever got BLOWN THE FUCK UP.

In love with the new Skyranger, the new Interceptor I can take or leave. I really like what they did with the Mutons. They look way the hell less goofy while still being large purple dudes in green.
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They Changed It, Now It Sucks. (Bitching about the 'miniture' look, the flailing camrea....)
 
Apollyon1184

Apollyon1184

Evil Porcine Liberal
A dude on SA found EVEN MORE SCREENSHOTS which I have stolen. Made a natural 20 on my pickpocket roll.


This should make it clear that there aren't fucking hexes ZOMG but distance based movement.


Plasma! Jean Fourier is about to get fucked.


HWP render. I like it!


Research!


Skyranger!


Notice the different armor concepts?


Muton!


Sectoids don't have all black eyes MY IMMERSION!


Is that an LMG or an HMG?


Beautiful.


This actually matches the old UFOpedia shot perfectly. Same for the Interceptor.

I just noticed the ladycoms don't have Boob Armor. Maximum bonus points. I like the "over the shoulder fuck you" cam as well.

If you hit the (i) button on the art video, you can find another video with the screenshots and an interview with sid meyer. It also has some remixed geoscape music.
 
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