We've probably all read Dan Simmons Going Mad - I mean The Time Traveller - but he appears to have gone right into Kratman Land with his latest work, Flashback.
The.
Fuck.
What.
The.
Fuck.
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Dan Simmons goes off the deeper end
- Thread starter Shrike
- Start date
MJ12 Commando
Solidarity
Wait. Wait. Wait. What.
I mean I remember back in the day when Simmons was an actually good writer and had a Palestinian Muslim as a main character. How the mighty have fallen
I mean I remember back in the day when Simmons was an actually good writer and had a Palestinian Muslim as a main character. How the mighty have fallen
This has got to be a hoax, isn't Dan Simmons the guy who wrote fucking Hyperion?
I refuse to believe someone could go off the deep end that fucking hard and sell out like that. This is either a hoax, a very elaborate deconstruction on his part that's being overlooked over people's shock, or he's injected pure lead into his bloodstream and turned into a frothing lunatic.
I refuse to believe someone could go off the deep end that fucking hard and sell out like that. This is either a hoax, a very elaborate deconstruction on his part that's being overlooked over people's shock, or he's injected pure lead into his bloodstream and turned into a frothing lunatic.
It's very definately the third option. Dan Simmons is rather notorious for having gone bonkeys over anything related to Islam.
Even in nominally totally unrelated books (Illium/Olympos) he took pointless potshots at Islam. You tell me how Islam is relevant to a story about greek posthuman gods.
Even in nominally totally unrelated books (Illium/Olympos) he took pointless potshots at Islam. You tell me how Islam is relevant to a story about greek posthuman gods.
I thought Kassad was the Palestinian Muslim dude portrayed in a fairly good light?
prometheus110
Solidarity
the fuck?
Words Fail Me
He was.
Though it's questionable just how Muslim he actually was - the Web in general is portrayed as exceedingly secular so he was probably no more Muslim than a typical Church of Englander is Christian. He certainly didn't do anything that drew attention to his religion.
Didn't he kill a whole bunch of people (like 15,000) and say something like "If you do it again, you'll feel more of Allah's wrath"?
Bwahahaha!
Oh man, this sounds positively fantastic. I mean yes it looks and sounds absolutely awful, but in an incredibly entertaining way.
I'm pretty sure I've got to read this when it comes out.
The Sun Emperor
An Allusive Man
That just sounds like a badass phrase.
Speaking of badass, the synopsis reads pretty badass. SOunds like this if I have my math right:
+
+
=
This will be the best book ever.
Speaking of badass, the synopsis reads pretty badass. SOunds like this if I have my math right:
+
+
=
This will be the best book ever.
Rabiddog
The world would be better as a musical.
Ok really is it that suprising he would take an overboard bent on a religion?
I mean seriously if you read Hyperion and Endemyon the guy already took bizarre potshots at Christianity and Judaism so why is it "overboard and nuts" when he takes pot shots at Islam? Double standard?
Ok Endemyon the "Eeeeevil" catholic church rules over mankind "eeeeevily".
Hyperion Jews are all pretty much a lip service faith because something happened to earth and for some reason that means they are now all pretty much saying "Fuck god this isnt what we expected"..............yeah and yet they still bother identifying themselves as Jews to the point they want their own planets isolated from everyone else.
I mean sure apparently everyone gets to poke at the eeeeeeeeeeeevil catholic church but really the warning signs were there in Endemyon and Hyperion why is it a shock he'd poke at Islam next?
Not trying to sound like a ranter by any means but I mean just reading his books it doesnt surprise me, what does surprise me is that it surpises anyone else.
I mean seriously if you read Hyperion and Endemyon the guy already took bizarre potshots at Christianity and Judaism so why is it "overboard and nuts" when he takes pot shots at Islam? Double standard?
Ok Endemyon the "Eeeeevil" catholic church rules over mankind "eeeeevily".
Hyperion Jews are all pretty much a lip service faith because something happened to earth and for some reason that means they are now all pretty much saying "Fuck god this isnt what we expected"..............yeah and yet they still bother identifying themselves as Jews to the point they want their own planets isolated from everyone else.
I mean sure apparently everyone gets to poke at the eeeeeeeeeeeevil catholic church but really the warning signs were there in Endemyon and Hyperion why is it a shock he'd poke at Islam next?
Not trying to sound like a ranter by any means but I mean just reading his books it doesnt surprise me, what does surprise me is that it surpises anyone else.
Unhappy Anchovy
Ἐλπίφόρος
And Ilium not only took random potshots at Islam but went out of its way to portray the Greek gods as shortsighted, idiotic, capricious jerks -
(and before anyone comes along and says 'accurate to mythology, then?', no, shut up, that's not how Greek mythology worked; gods were true to the nature of the thing they represented, and thus could be capricious or wrathful or benevolent corresponding to how that thing featured in the life-experiences of Greek people; they were not just super-powerful jackasses doing whatever amused them at the time)
- so I would think it fairly safe to say that Simmons has always had a few crazy ideas about the religions of the world.
That said, I am not convinced that this is evidence of Simmons going completely insane.
He's writing for an audience. People bought Kratman's novels. They bought Williamson's, they bought Ringo's horrible 'Paladin of Shadows' novels (or whatever they were called). There is an audience for this sort of garbage, even if they only read it to satisfy their senses of vindictiveness, according to whatever petty political loyalties they have. People actually like to read trash, if that trash is all about telling them that they're absolutely right and their irrational prejudices or insane political ideals are the one bastion of sanity in a collapsing world.
So, okay, yes, this is the literary equivalent of Steven Spielberg or Akira Kurosawa deciding to shoot exploitation pornography; but the book will sell, and Simmons will make money. He is shooting for a lowbrow and troglodytic demographic, but that demographic will lap it up. Because exploitation pornography makes money. Masterpieces of word or camera don't always. It's also possible that he's deliberately courting controversy, and going for the publicity. Another advantage of doing something both stupid and incredibly offensive.
On a much more petty note:
Peals.
The word is peals.
Phantom Llama
Absurd
It was after hearing that Dan Simmons had gone crazy about Islam that I looked at that in a different light.
Really, in hindsight the attack on the terrorists was the sort of intensely intensely creepy fantasising revenge-porn you get from wierdoes on SB. Kassad being a (nominal) Muslim doesn't improve this. He's not a Muslim because Dan Simmons respects and values Muslims as human beings. He's a Muslim because he's one of the good ones, and you can tell he's one of the good ones because he's just as merciless and lurid in fighting The Enemy (Muslims not among the good ones) as real people are. He's a figleaf. He is Simmons' (imaginary) Black Republican Friend.
Now he seems to have lost even that nuance and thrown in with the Tea Party. I can't honestly say I'm that surprised. Or he's just trying to make money from the teabagger audience but that kind of prostitution and peddling of racism is hardly better.
Phantom Llama
Absurd
Writing books where an army of negrous apes from darkest Africa overruns the lands of the Whites and rapes all their women while dancing and eating fried chicken is not 'taking potshots'.
Four Lions is taking potshots. This is naked racism.
Phantom Llama
Absurd
bidoof
Solidarity
Yes, but the sort of audience he is trying to appeal to here is too dumb to be large - only authors who cannot get a normal audience because of a lack of actual writing ability (which Simmons has enough of) would have to resort to trying to sell to this section of the market.
please don't destroy my faith in humanity by claiming otherwise
Unhappy Anchovy
Ἐλπίφόρος
Well, I honestly don't know how large that segment of the market is...
Though experience does teach me never to underestimate the potential stupidity of large numbers of Americans, so I suppose one never knows.
Ooh and it includes "global warming hoax".
OK, I knew of that "time traveler" story. I saw him mention 9/11 million times in Ilium/Olympus, and make Caliphate as one of main bad guys in the book. But this, really?
Only logical explanation is that he spent all his money on high quality cocaine and is now broke and working for highest bidder (nea-con and teep propaganda machine).
Once again, WTF! If anyone asked me before 2005. I'd would have said Simmons is a pretty liberal author.
OK, I knew of that "time traveler" story. I saw him mention 9/11 million times in Ilium/Olympus, and make Caliphate as one of main bad guys in the book. But this, really?
Only logical explanation is that he spent all his money on high quality cocaine and is now broke and working for highest bidder (nea-con and teep propaganda machine).
Once again, WTF! If anyone asked me before 2005. I'd would have said Simmons is a pretty liberal author.
Uhm, Islam isn't a race.
Well put. And Dan Simmons is not the only one who has written about a global Caliphate dystopia - have a look at "Hatred of the Angels".
Such a future is possible.
Phantom Llama
Absurd
Ooh and it includes "global warming hoax".
OK, I knew of that "time traveler" story. I saw him mention 9/11 million times in Ilium/Olympus, and make Caliphate as one of main bad guys in the book. But this, really?
Only logical explanation is that he spent all his money on high quality cocaine and is now broke and working for highest bidder (nea-con and teep propaganda machine).
Once again, WTF! If anyone asked me before 2005. I'd would have said Simmons is a pretty liberal author.
I think he's just a zionist who had his mind broken by 9/11. There's a lot of latents who went crazy after that day.
Yes, there's quite the cottage industry of petty bigots peddling hysteria. You are human shit, so naturally you would indulge it.
It's also possible for Scientology to become the world's foremost religion. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's even remotely likely to happen.
