Former teacher in Montana gets 30 days in jail for raping student who later committed suicide

Discussion in 'Non Sci-fi Debates' started by Skyzeta, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. The Dark Gods

    The Dark Gods Lord Of Madness

    Even if it was just statutory rape, a single month is still way to little, that's like, petty vandalism charges, not rape charges.
  2. Catty Nebulart

    Catty Nebulart Catgirl Android

    Agreed, but if the power in the relationship is very unequal, such as say your boss, your teacher, your commanding officer, you parent, whatever, with that kind of power-relationship consent becomes tricky.

    I am a great believer in rehabilitation but I also strive for a certain level of fairness, when 10 year olds get more punishment that this for playing doctor something is slightly wrong. Idealy we would stop punishing the 10 year olds in such a draconian fashion but that wouldn't be tough on crime... which is the root cause of many of these problems.
    kinglugia and lightdreamer like this.
  3. 15 year suspended sentence, which means for the next 15 years he can't step one toe out of line and has to have some very intrusive police looking into his life.

    Isn't this the whole point of rehabilitation? Judge ruled that the girl was acting older than her age and partially culpable for the relationship and that the defendant is at a very low risk of re-offending and sentenced him to counseling.

    Yes, but not every relationship with unequal power is the one in power taking advantage of the other. Sometimes the one with less power is aggressively seeking the relationship. You have to look at it on a case by case basis. Which this judge did and found that the teacher wasn't entirely at fault.

    When did a 10 year old go to jail for 30 days?
  4. This will go in my 10 of most fucked judge decisions folder.
  5. The Dark Gods

    The Dark Gods Lord Of Madness

    Missed that part actually, but that still seems rather light for this.

    She's only 14 at the time, unless she was aging mentally WAY faster then she would normally, I'd say you have to be atleast 16 for that sort of argument to be any what justified before putting it under scrutiny if the person is actually older then their age.
    As for not likely to be a repeat offender, this article really doesn't give enough info for me to say if that's likely or not....
    kinglugia and Basilisk like this.
  6. I don't believe so. Statutory rape is such a grey area that you must look at it on a case by case basis. One case can be wildly different from another in terms of how predatory the adult was.

    14 year olds can commit murder and be tried as adults, it's really not unheard of for them to act older than their age.

    The judge considered him to be at low risk of re-offending.
  7. euph_22

    euph_22 Arbiter

    Did you miss the part where he was kicked out of the counseling program for non-compliance?
    Jet Morgan likes this.

  8. Depends on the crime rapists and especially pedophile rapists deserve punishment. As well as rehabilitation.
  9. He was visiting with a child within his family and having sex with an adult woman without reporting it. The judge ruled it a very minor breach and not worth jailing the guy for 10 years over.
  10. The Dark Gods

    The Dark Gods Lord Of Madness

    Aye, but it's only a grey area if the person is close to adulthood, in this case, she was mentally closer to kid, rather then adult going by her age.

    A murder and statutory rape are different. Mental conditions that result in a murder generally don't go away when one grows up, you can't grow out of being a sociopath unless I've been heavily mislead on the subject, the inability to consent does go away as one matures, as you grow more and you leave that mental state where your emotions are heavily unstable.
  11. euph_22

    euph_22 Arbiter

    And treatment for sexual predators is largely ineffective. It certainly isn't something you can cure.

    And again, this guy was kicked out of his treatment program for non-compliance.
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  12. Again, the judge interviewed the girl in question and determined that she did indeed act older than her age would indicate, and that she was significantly culpable for the relationship.

    Let's try this another way. A 14 year old, 6 foot tall boy aggressively goes after a teacher, hits on her, tries to flirt, etc. Eventually she gives in and has sex with him. Said 14 year old acts significantly older than his age when interviewed. Is she a predator that deserves to be thrown in jail for years?

    Not all murderers are sociopaths. My point is that it's very possible for teens to be as "mature" as adults.
  13. The Dark Gods

    The Dark Gods Lord Of Madness

    I can act like a policemen, that doesn't mean I am one, or that you should come to me when someone commits a crime, he dated her despite knowing that while she may act like a adult, emotionally the chance of her being genuinely like a adult are really really slim.

    She should have reported him, if she did have sex with him, she should go to jail, in that case, not very many years of jail, for that sort of thing I'd say 2-3, but I'm also really bad at judging time.

    I was just using it as a example, but in the murder the child is the only one acting, in a statutory rape, it requires another being involved to accept that despite the fact the teen is at a age where they are emotionally confused, and are still discovering things about them, that they are mentally capable of choosing this, and the fact she was emotionally unstable/disturbed enough to kill herself two years latter, kinda points towards her not being emotionally ready.
  14. Memphet'ran

    Memphet'ran Looking into the light

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest this doesn't make it sound like this was a benign relationship.
  15. The problem can solve itself. Find out where he will be for his month in jail and write a friendly educational letter to every inmate about the failings of the justice system in regards to this individual, essentially informing them of what he did, what the result was, and how they should, upon leaving prison of course, take steps to make sure their representatives will understand that they are against such small punishments.

    I'm sure his associates will talk it out in a reasonable fashion with him should it ever come up in idle conversation, and I would hope they would all learn a valuable lesson about the justice system. Knowledge is power after all.

    Everybody wins when you communicate! ^_____^
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  16. euph_22

    euph_22 Arbiter

    I wonder if the judge is confused here, and mistakenly believing his sentencing the guy for failing his treatment program, when he is actually sentencing him for the rape.
  17. uju32

    uju32 Mad Doctor

    This is statutory rape, no?
    I think 30 days is a little light for someone who abused that power relationship, and the judge's justification does sound sketchy, but there is a fifteen year probation period, so it's not the most egregious case we've seen mentioned here.

    I really don't see where the suicide thing comes into this, though.
    Is there any evidence that this [incident?affair? Dunno what to call it] had any effect on the girl's decision to kill herself?
    The girl killed herself two years after the guy was charged, at 17.
    I really don't see the causation here.
  18. Memphet'ran

    Memphet'ran Looking into the light

  19. Onimech

    Onimech Snazzy Custom Title Here

    But if it happened in Texas and he were a 10 year old girl.....things would be different.
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  20. uju32

    uju32 Mad Doctor

    I don't know the details of the case, mind, so I could well be talking out my ass here.

    But this is in her opinion, correct? What did the girl's friends think?
    What of her other teachers?
    How large a factor are we talking about?
    Enough to outweigh everything else going on in her life?
    It's hardly the first time that parents have been known to take out their grief on targets of convenience.

    Dude was arrested when she was 15; she committed suicide at 17.
    He certainly didn't help, but I'm not seeing the causal link.
    Then again, it's hardly the kind of thing I can judge from the comfort of my sofa and a newspaper synopsis.
  21. This is sad.
    Without knowing all the facts, I don't want to jump on the "they should make something nasty happen to him" bandwagon.
    But there's also the question of the precedent this sets.
  22. Total red herring. Everyone becomes an adult eventually, not everyone becomes a policeman. In addition, it's the appearance of age that matters here.

    Wow you really like ruining people's lives eh?

    For this sort of thing, try no jail time at all.

    Yes that's why it's against the law, but also why there is flexibility in sentencing.

    Two years later, who the hell knows what happened to her since then.

    The mother is obviously an unbiased and accurate source.;)

    This suicide occurred two years after the relationship ended, that sounds to me like the suicide was completely unrelated to the relationship and the mother is just making shit up.
  23. No? The guy was sentenced to 15 years suspended and treatment in 2010. This story is just in the news now because apparently he failed to report contact with a child within his family and his sexual relationship with some woman to his counselors. The prosecutors wanted 10 years for this violation of the conditions of his release but the judge disagreed and said those violations were minor and does not indicate a relapse or threat to society.
  24. How much time did that female teacher who raped her male student get? IIRC it was less then this guy.
  25. This is probably the closest case.

    Basically a 15 year old boy pursued a relationship with his teacher, teacher caved in, sentenced to 3 years probation, 30 days in a treatment program, no jail time, no sex offender registry.