Gun safety...French style

Discussion in 'Non Sci-fi Debates' started by volrath77, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. volrath77

    volrath77 Serial Editor


    And if I read'-shoots-17-spectators-at-military-show.html correctly...firing blanks into the crowd?


    What the hell happened to basic gun safety rules? Why didn't the soldier check the mag when he slapped the new one in? I thought this is something which is standard indoctrination in any military least it is so to me since my instructors kept drilling this into my head in every live fire exercise.
  2. Alyeska

    Alyeska Beast Slayer Super Awesome Happy Fun Time

    The situation itself is pretty bad. Since it involved firing towards spectators, they should have taken special care in ensure that there was NO live ammunition at all by requiring every soldier to be thoroughly searched prior to the engagement.
  3. LT_Ryguy

    LT_Ryguy KNEEL BEFORE MOD SuperModerator


    Oh my gosh...

    That is just horrible.
  4. Xort

    Xort Mahō Shōjo

    Do they use BFAs on their rifles? If so I can't understand how this could have happened.
  5. Why the fuck were they firing at an observing crowd during a simulation? And yes, this is absolutely terrible. Hope all of the civilians pull through, esp. the child.
  6. Xort

    Xort Mahō Shōjo

    Well to put on a show for the public. With blanks it isn't at all dangerous.

    The question isn't why he shot the crowd, but where he got live ammo from.
  7. E1701

    E1701 Core High Commander

    Something's not making sense there. I mean, even during Civil War reenactments, they've got basic ground-rules on dealing with spectators... ie, no rifles pointed anywhere in the direction of spectators, guns that have even been *used* to fire live rounds have to be inspected beforehand to make sure no lead fouling will be fired out, rifles have to be aimed above the heads of the opposing lines, and the unit sergeants personally inspect every kit and rifle to be certain there are no live cartridges or even bullets anywhere outside the campsites.

    Why on Earth would they fire modern rifles towards spectators, and not even have done a thorough inspection first? :wtf:
  8. You can do that without shooting AT them.
  9. Bryan

    Bryan <font color=yellow>The Great Goof!</font>

    Shooting towards the crowd is just ridiculous, even with blanks. You never point a gun at someone like this, even with blanks.

    This was a horrible mistake. Hopefully it wasn't intentional or some other soldier switching out the rounds.
  10. Xort

    Xort Mahō Shōjo

    How do you not notice a live round being fired? How do you not notice the live round you just fired blowing off the blank fire attachment? How do you not notice live rounds in a mag?

    Something isn't adding up.
  11. Athene

    Athene Steel Maiden

    How the hell could you not tell you were carrying live ammunition much less firing it? :wtf:
  12. volrath77

    volrath77 Serial Editor

    Agreed. Not checking the ammo before firing while doing public demo like this is seriously fucked up.

    As for the 3 year old boy shot in the heart, his guardian angel must've been with him that day since that is nothing short of a miracle.
  13. mughi3

    mughi3 heavy metal-guru

    heard bout this on the news earlier today.

    wow the french continue to amaze us with the capabilities of thier armed forces..............the good news i suppose is that they shot 17 people and nobody actually died, the bad news is.........thier military shot 17 people with military weapons and live ammunition, 15 of which were unarmed, un-armored civilians, and nobody died.............i wonder if they will claim this as a victory?

    ah just dawned on me, only 2 soldiers were injured, they must have surrendered faster than the onlookers. :D
  14. Nonite

    Nonite Perä-Amilaari

    Eh, nothing particularly french about this, though, just stupid. What I gathered, the was dust in the air, or smoke from the demonstration, the soldiers trying to stop the terrorist blokes were shooting at them, with blanks, and there was crowd behind them. There was crowd all around, apparently, which is stupid... And, FAMAS is pretty quick in it's firing. Couple of rounds will be enough to would 17 people with fragments and the likes, and is fired before one even notices recoil.

    Or so I hear.
  15. SGTschlock

    SGTschlock Sensei aishitemasu

    According to the UK telegraph, one of the soldiers was in the middle of the crowd simulating a "terrorist".

    ...the fact that anyone thought this was a good idea is mind numbing.

    So gun nutty hicks have better fire arms safety standards than the Elite of the French military?
  16. CommanderRazor

    CommanderRazor Your friendly Commissar-Admin Administrator

    Yeah, really.:wtf: With BFAs, even if you do something stupid like try to use live ammo the worst that happens is the weapon blows up in the moron's face.

    As for the Pres of France deciding to come down on the whole CoC that's pretty shitty. Really, if you want to get to the root of the problem, you check out the platoon SOPs. If their Plt. Ldr and Plt. Sgt. weren't tracking that their guys knew how to inspect their weapons (PCI) and treat it like it's loaded regardless of status then they were fucked up. If they were tracking that shit and simply weren't able to watch every squad in detail, then it falls on the Squad Leader. If not him then the Team Leader. Either way it shouldn't really go above platoon level, IMO; the idiot himself and his leadership that is most closely responsible for letting it happen.

    However what I would endorse Sarkozy cracking down on is the genius idea of shooting any sort of weapon in the direction people in the first place, and civilians at that. Children no less. While the idiot shooting the live ammo was his fault and to an extent his immediate superiors' faults, the actual idea to do an exercise like that in the first place should certainly result in someone's balls getting crushed and their shiny shoulder rank stripped.
  17. Aratech

    Aratech Expendable Clone Assassin

    I predict a whole new type of French related military jokes after this fiasco.

    Oi... whoever thought this was a good idea, please, tell me what they were smoking, and what I might do to procure some of the fine crop.

    Seriously, even if one member of the crowd was supposedly a terrorist, what exactly was the army attempting to demonstrate here?

    The average Boy Scout with bare bones firearms/archery training knows to tread a gun as if it were loaded, live, and capable of taking someone's head off at all times, and the slightest amount of horseplay results in said Scout being stripped of his right to qualify for the badge for quite some time, even if the gun is unloaded, the safety on, and the breech open.

    This does not speak well for the future...
  18. I'm assuming there is a huge difference between blank and live rounds. I've never seen a blank round so don't know what they look like, can someone describe the difference in appearance?

    Or is the difference something simple like the blanks rounds just have the shell casing and no slug/bullet
  19. CommanderRazor

    CommanderRazor Your friendly Commissar-Admin Administrator

    Both the casing's end is different and there's no round plus at least in the US blanks typically have a purple tip (if it's not rubbed off that is). The tip of the casing is crimped so that it vaguely resembles almost a 6 or 8 indent (rather than 4) Phillips/cross head screwdriver tip.

    Oh, and they don't even weigh the same, being lighter due to both no round and using less powder.

    In short, you'd have to be a retard to not recognize it.
  20. Primer

    Primer Valar Morghulis Super Awesome Happy Fun Time

    Well, only a retard would go into infantry. :p;) *runs off*
  21. SGTschlock

    SGTschlock Sensei aishitemasu

    That in the event that a terrorist is in a crowd, the standard French army response is to kill everyone in the crowd?
    Whats most disturbing, is that with the number of people injured, this wasn't some stray rounds hitting the crowd. This was somebody firing a sustained burst.

    I get the feeling that the guy with the live rounds wasn't the only guy intentionally firing in the direction of the crowd...
    What's scary is that there probably was more than one person shooting at the crowd. Except only one had live ammo.
    Since the bullets would be in the magazine, I don't think you'd notice it. However, there would be some kind of indicator (like a colored ring or something...) to indicate the magazine was full of blanks. This is still not an excuse though. You never point a weapon, live, unloaded, or with blanks at anything you wouldn't be comfortable strangling to death.

    Something is seriously wrong with the situation when guns were even being pointed at civilians.
  22. Primer

    Primer Valar Morghulis Super Awesome Happy Fun Time

    Well, it's the only way to be sure. It's what Team America would have done.
  23. SGTschlock

    SGTschlock Sensei aishitemasu

    For all their failings, at least Team America only destroys the significant cultural land marks. They have surprisingly low collateral damage in terms of human life actually.

    It might not actually be that unreasonable for Sarkozy to go totally off the wall with the entire CoC. The shooter and ordnance might have fucked up with the live rounds, but somebody higher up the totem pole had to decide that a demonstration involving weapons being pointed in the direction of civilians (Inexcusable even with unloaded weapons) was a good idea. I think Sarkozy wants to make it clear that he's not going to accept a couple of grunts as the scape goats in this cluster fuck.
  24. Aratech

    Aratech Expendable Clone Assassin


    And they were just starting to get respect back as a 1st world military. :(

    Well, the FAMAS has a 15 RPS ROF, but I can't imagine why this fellow would be shooting full auto. Don't they teach you *not* to do that unless you need to throw down suppression/cover fire and there isn't a SAW available?

    Indeed. Do we know of any footage of the event?
  25. I cannot really say anything new in this thread but i do agree with why the hell was he fireing a weapon at people blanks or not.