If the Q are "omnipotent" why are they afraid of the Borg then?

Discussion in 'SciFi Technical Discussions' started by RJLCyberPunk, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. This is a question that simply eludes an answer. I mean why would allegedly omnipotent beings be afraid of a race of cyborgs that by definition would never be a match for them? If they are afraid of beings that are far less powerful than even the Goa'uld at the height of their power, is their omnipotence hogwash then?
  2. When have the Q shown fear about the Borg?
  3. judgeking

    judgeking Logical Alcoholic

    1: They aren't afraid of the Borg.
    2: They aren't omnipotent either.
  4. 1. Watch the Voyager episode where Q tells his son not to mess with the Borg... :rolleyes:

    2. The Q always reffer to themselves as omnipotent... :rolleyes:

    Watch the Voyager episode where Q tells his son not to mess with the Borg...:rolleyes:
  5. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END.

    Maybe that wasn't out of fear, but out of Q needing to have them around to screw around with someone else?
  6. Is not like his son was wiping them out just toying with them and Q sternly told him not to ever mess with the Borg. Considering that the Q often love to play with lower beings as if they were their personal toys, that they would avoid the Borg seems suspect at best...
  7. Qeveren

    Qeveren Well hello there, little friends...

    Given the Borg's penchant for adapting to things, maybe they'd rather not have them exposed to too much Q-ing around? Unlikely, I admit... :)
  8. Bryan

    Bryan <font color=yellow>The Great Goof!</font>

    I seriously doubt the Gould are more powerful than the Borg. The Gould rule over sparsely populated planets and have relatively few ships. The Borg assimilate thousands of species, trillions upon trillions of individuals. I'd like the Gould to attempt and fail at building anything like a Unimatrix.

    The Q are not afraid of the Borg. Q probably said that to q like one would say "Now son don't tease the dog". Q was probably concerned that q would mess with the Borg in some way which would have consequences for other non-Q entities.

    While the Q are not omnipotent, they are probably the closest thing possible to it.

    The Quinn took Voyager to the beginning of time, before the Big Bang. I doubt someone with that ability would be afraid of the Borg. And remember that even though Quinn's prison was an asteroid, it was a Q made prison. What they do, like their civil war, is how non-Q perceive events. Q can mess with sapients but remember that the Q Continuum is always watching. Remember when Q took Janeway to what humans would perceive as the Continuum. The Q were "bored" to human understanding because they had done "everything" there is to do. You honestly think that a being which can exist at any point in time and to our perception exist simultaneously in multiple time periods would be afraid of the Borg? Come on. Or a being that can grant Q-like powers to others on a whim (Riker)? Let's be serious. Q can also create alternate realities such as with Picard with a real heart instead of a mechanical one. He can take anyone at whim to somewhere where he messes with them (the trial, the fake battles, etc).

    Q uses the Borg for his own ends and just doesn't want q screwing around with something Q probably perceives as his "toy". Q is fairly immature, at least to human standards or human comprehension.

    Using this one example to draw false conclusions about the Q ignores everything we know about the Q. The Q, They, and the M Continuum are the most powerful being in Trek and more powerful than any space faring civilization there.
  9. thtadthtshldntb

    thtadthtshldntb Anti nBSG Troll Super Awesome Happy Fun Time

    I have always interpreted Q's comments to mean that the Borg were important, ie don't mess with them because they are important.

    As to the Q being omnipotent, they are functionally omnipotent though not actually omnipotent.
  10. Q99


    Yea, they fit the same 'omnipotent' that gods do, i.e. they're the most powerful things around so they can do what they want.

    Not in the literal sense.
  11. Killer Clowns

    Killer Clowns Crack don't smoke itself!

    The Dowd guy killed all the Hoosnuk race with a a thought in just a second just cause he lost his temper. The Q are above them in the Ascended being category.
  12. I've also inferred that Q was just being a fatherly jerk to his son, a "Do as I say, not as I do" sorta thing. Since, it was Q himself that first 'screwed with the Borg'.
  13. Palp

    Palp Not badass enough.

    I do not think that it was because they where in any way a threat to the Q. But rather what they when getting riled up may do to other lower races. Something Q himself have experience with, he did in a way rile them up against the federation. Its rather likely that the Q continuum as a whole is a bit more responsible when it comes to these things and does not want something similar to happen again.
  14. Q99


    Also, the way *he* riled them up was relatively helpful, but random rilings might not be as good.
  15. And you'd be wrong, the Goa'uld stole their technology from none other than the Ancients themselves, both Borg weaponry and shielding is laughable by SGverse standards, plus it was a not a few worlds the Goa'uld ruled but the whole freaking galaxy...
  16. Don't think it was the entire galaxy, and the majority of it was villages and preindustrial civilizations not a major accomplishment.

    IIRC the quote so something like: if we've told you once we've told you 100 times don't provoke the Borg.

  17. Yes it was, the only reason you see humans under Goa'uld rule living in primitive conditions is because the Goa'uld deliberately kept them that way is by no means an indicator of the range of their empire, This is Stargate we are talking about now not Star Trek with it's horribly slow warp drives, The Stargate Network not only spawned nearly the whole galaxy but other galaxies as well. And IIRC the Goauld ruled the MW before they were defeated period. Only a few areas of the Galaxy such as the ones ruled by the Hebridans or the Ashen escaped their rule...
  18. FireHazard

    FireHazard He Exists

    If you want a reasonable explaination for not provoking the Borg, well in terms of the Trekverse they are one of the big boys. They rule thousands upon thousands of systems, have a massive fleet, overpower damn near everone else etc..... The Q are, at least officially, some sort of Galactic or universal guardians. They have a job to make sure nothing messes up the galaxy as a whole. Q himself was something of a loose cannon, and one who was repeatedly censured for his messing with lesser species. And by the Voyager era he does seem to have settled down a bit more into proper Q'ness.

    The order to leave the Borg alone is probably like saying not to get the big dog angry because who knows what mess they will do to the galaxy or something like that.

    The fact that Q jnr can teleport a borg ship whever the hell he pleases, including one would presume the inside of a star or a black hole, they have no reason to ever be afraid of the borg. And that is the least of their powers.
  19. True enough, in the Trekverse the Borg are indeed the big boys on the block. But they pale in comparison to powers from other universes by far and wide...
  20. vivftp

    vivftp Trekspert


    I can't help but roll my eyes whenever I see someone make this argument. This time rather than argue about it, I'll let the dialogue from the episode tell the story of why the Q are NOT afraid of the Borg, and why Q behaved the way he did:

    CHAKOTAY: One of your responsibilities as a Q is to maintain order in the universe, right?
    Q2: So I've been told.


    Q: My point is, Junior was suppose to inspire peace and compassion, but instead of order he's brought chaos. He's been starting wars among innocent species, tampering with primordial gene pools, punching holes in the fabric of space-time.
    JANEWAY: Where's his mother been during all this?
    Q: She's been so humiliated by his antics she's disowned him. She's blamed me for everything. I've managed to undo most of the damage, but that wasn't good enough for the Continuum. They're hounding me to straighten the boy out. That's why I brought him here, in hopes that your vaunted Starfleet ideals would rub off on him. Obviously, that hasn't happened.


    Q: The Continuum and I have come to an agreement about your future. Either you become an upstanding citizen of the cosmos, or you'll be sentenced to eternity as a amoeba. How's that for consequences.

    Now, the above puts into perspective what's going on and what's at stake for Q and Q Jr. That's why Q brought him to Voyager in the first place, in the hope that he'd turn around and become better. Instead what does he do? He drops a couple of Borg cubes on Voyager and is about to have the crew assimilated. Q shows up at that point and what does he say?

    Q: If the Continuum's told you once, they've told you a thousand times. Don't provoke the Borg!

    NOW, does this put things into perspective for everyone? :)
  21. Q99


    That's a pretty compelling argument.

    Then again, so is "It's a Q versus the Borg".
  22. The Q should be afraid of the Borg, IMO.

    As we've seen more of the Borg we've seen that the Borg are intensely curious in their own Borglike way. Otherwise they never would've cared about Fluidic space or Omega as much as they did.

    The Borg know about the Q and it's almost a certainty that some group of Borg somewhere in the collective are tasked with working on a way to open up a door to the Continuum. What better way to achieve perfection than to assimilate a Q?
  23. Killer Clowns

    Killer Clowns Crack don't smoke itself!

    That was quite funny, I needed that after my disastrous softball game.:D If you read the above, Q junior drop the Borg upon Voyager. If he can do that he could of easily dropped them in a star.
  24. Killer Clowns

    Killer Clowns Crack don't smoke itself!

    That was quite funny, I needed that after my disastrous softball game.:D If you read the above, Q junior drop the Borg upon Voyager. If he can do that he could of easily dropped them in a star.
  25. vivftp

    vivftp Trekspert

    Please tell me this is a joke.

    In case it's not, let me put it this way. There are a ton of powerful entities in Trek who could bitchslap the Borg down quite nicely (Prophets, Douwd, Organians...). These are the groups whose power levels are between the relatively tiny Borg strength and the Q who are at the top of the Trek food chain in terms of power. Of all those beings who can time travel, travel through dimensions, wink things out of existance with a thought... none of them have ever been to the Q Continuum. We know this from VOY's Deathwish:

    QUINN: I apologize for their lack of hospitality, Captain. We're not used to visitors here. In fact you are the only ones who've ever come.

    The only known ways to get into the Q Continuum are either via Q powers, or via the literal backdoors that were created during the Q Civil War with the stars going supernova:

    KIM: She's put us on a direct course for another star about to go supernova.
    FEMALE Q: You did say you wanted to get into the Continuum?
    CHAKOTAY: Yes, but in one piece.
    FEMALE Q: Try to wrap your minuscule mind around this. These supernovas are actually caused by spatial disruptions within the Continuum, the result of the war. Now, each time a star implodes, a negative density false vacuum is created which actually sucks the surrounding matter into the Continuum.
    CHAKOTAY: So Voyager will be pulled in too.
    FEMALE Q: If we time it perfectly. Otherwise, the subsequent explosion will blow you all into microfragments.

    Then we get to the problem that even IF the Borg somehow pulled off a miracle and actually made it into the Continuum, they wouldn't be able to percieve it without the Q making it more hospitable for them.

    Then we get to the simple fact that the Q are entities, so there's no real way for the Borg to assimilate them.

    Now let's say that SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY the Borg managed to get into the Continuum, that they Borg managed to comprehend what was going on in the Continuum, and that the Borg managed to somehow figure out a way to assimilate a Q, the Q have a mastery over space and time that the Borg could only ever dream to have. A single thought by a Q could erase the entire Borg Collective from existance.

    So...... were you joking? :)