Liberal vs Conservative interesting facts

Discussion in 'Non Sci-fi Debates' started by Sci Fi Fan, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. [Some gathered from my posts on separate boards]





    [last one: Pew Research Center]

    49% of self identified liberals have college degrees.

    28% of self identified social conservatives have college degrees.

    [Pew Research Center]

    Before you ask, the statistic does not significantly change if one discounts the liberal arts.

    On Science:

    Only 35% of conservatives profess a "great deal of trust in science", compared to around 48% for liberals.

    I think it is rather self evident that conservatives, especially social conservatives, are significantly more likely to reject Evolutionary Theory and Global Warming, in spite of unanimous consensus from every internationally recognized scientific community that exists today.

    Over 85% of Scientists self identify as democrats, and over 74% as liberals. Before you ask, the statistic is the same for private and public sector professions.

    Richest states (per capita)
    1. District of Columbia
    2. Delaware
    3. Connecticut
    4. Alaska
    5. Massachusetts
    6. Wyoming
    7. New Jersey
    8. New York
    9. Minnesota
    10. Virginia
    Highest percent bellow poverty line (per capita)
    1. Mississippi
    2. Louisiana
    3. New Mexico
    4. District of Columbia
    5. Arkansas
    6. West Virginia
    7. Kentucky
    8. Texas
    9. Alabama
    10. South Carolina
    Most Educated
    1. Vermont
    2. Connecticut
    3. Massachusetts
    4. New Jersy
    5. Maine
    6. Minnesota
    7. Virginia
    8. Wisconsin
    9. Montana
    10. New York
    Least Educated
    1. Arizona
    2. Mississippi
    3. New Mexico
    4. Nevada
    5. California
    6. Lousiana
    7. Alaska
    8. Alabama
    9. Hawaii
    10. Tennessee
    1. Vermont
    2. New Hampshire
    3. Massachussettes
    4. Minnesota
    5. Maine
    6. Iowa
    7. Utah
    8. Hawaii
    9. Nebraska
    10. Connecticut
    Least Healthy
    1. Louisiana
    2. Mississippi
    3. New Mexico
    4. Nevada
    5. Oklahoma
    6. Texas
    7. Florida
    8. South Carolina
    9. Georgia
    10. Alabama
    Receive the most federal tax dollars
    1. District of Columbia
    2. New Mexico
    3. Mississippi
    4. Alaska
    5. Louisiana
    6. West Virginia
    7. North Dakota
    8. Alabama
    9. South Dakota
    10. Kentucky
    Receive the least federal tax dollars
    1. New Jersey
    2. Nevada
    3. Connecticut
    4. New Hampshire
    5. Minnesota
    6. Illinois
    7. Delaware
    8. California
    9. New York
    10. Colorado
    Most Suicides (per capita)
    1. Wyoming
    2. Montana
    3. Alaska
    4. Nevada
    5. New Mexico
    6. Oregon
    7. Colorado
    8. Idaho
    9. West Virginia
    10. Arizona
    Fewest Suicides (per capita)
    1. New York
    2. District of Columbia
    3. New Jersey
    4. Massachusetts
    5. Connecticut
    6. Rhode Island
    7. Illinois
    8. Maryland
    9. California
    10. Ohio

    Most Teen Pregnancies
    1. Texas
    2. New Mexico
    3. Mississippi
    4. Arizona
    5. District of Columbia
    6. Arkansas
    7. Lousiana
    8. Oklahomoa
    9. Tennessee
    10. Georgia
    Fewest Teen Pregnancies
    1. New Hampshire
    2. Vermont
    3. Massachusetts
    4. Connecticut
    5. Maine
    6. New Jersey
    7. Minnesota
    8. North Dakota
    9. New York
    10. Pennsylvania
  2. Lordarshyn

    Lordarshyn Peace among worlds.

    Reaction will be:

  3. CT17

    CT17 I'm Cherokee Jack

    I thought Washington was more educated than that, disappointing to find we're not evern in the top 10.
  4. What's interesting about it? All of this is common knowledge, everyone here has already seen all of these fact independently - some of them are good at rationalizing away why it doesn't mean what it means, but no one who reads any politics at all is unaware.
  5. Tassadar

    Tassadar The Overlord of Cakes & Toucans!

    Why is Obama not added?
  6. Zelinko

    Zelinko IT'S FAIRY TIME!

    Because this is supposed to be a "TAKE THAT!" thread.
  7. Memphet'ran

    Memphet'ran Looking into the light

    Poor and uneducated people tending to be more conservative seems a pretty common dynamic and one I think makes quite a bit of sense if you think about it. It's the elites who tend to have the spare time and resources to be revolutionaries and the access to information to make them revolutionaries, so successful non-conservative ideologies tend to start there (especially in the lower elites who have all this good stuff but still have it bad enough to dislike the status quo) and trickle down to lower socioeconomic levels. Add to this the poor and uneducated tend to be less cosmopolitan which makes xenophobia easier.
  8. Everyone know reality has the worst liberal bias imaginable. You either deal with reality, or make shit up. Telling people
    "Stop making up bullshit" doesn't work.
  9. Including Clinton is disingenuous. He was the first President after the former soviet states got over the chaos of their break up (massive new markets and access to natural resources that were previously unavailable), he was the President when a technological revolution created an entirely new sector of the economy (the internet and personal computers going main stream), he was not President during time of war.

    Clinton's policies didn't have much of an impact on the economy, he was simply President when other factors caused the economy to perform exceptionally well.
    Reagen was President during the cold war, military expenses were significantly higher at the time because of it.

    George Bush was President during Desert Storm and when the US was pumping a lot of money into the former USSR.

    George W. Bush was President during and following 9/11. That has a massive effect on the economy and virtually any US President regardless of party would have undertaken the invasion of Afghanistan. Much of the rest of his deficit came from other 9/11 related national security costs. His tax cuts and his invasion of Iraq are the two parts of his budget deficit that are (arguably) truly his fault. The first Bush tax cut was also signed into law in June of 2001, it's impact without 9/11 is unknowable.
    Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Note the second word on y axis "adolescent". Also, please provide a link to the study that this graph is from as it makes no distinction between economic, foreign, and social policy.

    Makes that a very flawed question.

    No but it does if you specify party alignment, social issues, economic issues, foreign policy, and several other factors.

    Again, specifics matter. You also should provide a source for this statement.

    I think that if you want to claim something to be self evidently true then it can't be something where any dispute by a sane and rational individual with a modicum of logical thought is possible.


    Has very little to actually do with why those states are rich or poor. I could go state by state and explain the factors involved in each of them if you want.
    Hmm, look at which part of the nation everyone of those states is in except Montana and Virginia. Look at where the nations best universities are and why they are where they are as well.

    Again, look at geographical location and past history.

    Again, six of those 10 states are in the same geographic region. Those same six also made the list for most educated, and 3 of those just so happen to also be on the list of richest states; both education and wealth have been shown to have a massive impact on health.

    See above except in reverse.

    Note the common thread, everyone of them is a small state. All of those states combined don't have the same population or economy of California. If you want the nation to be relatively equal in standard of living it has to transfer wealth to the less economically viable states. This is the problem that the EU ran into.
    Note the geographic region and the comparison to the previous lists. Also note population figures.
    Note the common thread. It's not political ideology as the split is 60/40.
    Again note the common thread, it's not political ideology.
    My, I seem to recognize a lot of these states from the lists of poorest and least educated. It's amazing what that does to teen pregnancy figures.
    See above except in reverse.

    Only as a case study in how the average person has no real understanding of statistics and how to use them.

    Correlation does not imply causation. You could, quite literally, make a better case that being in the north east quadrant of the US makes you wealthier, better educated, healthier, and liberal. That you live in the north east does not actually cause any of those factors. The North East was settled earlier, industrialized first, is closest to Europe, won the civil war, has the highest urban population of any quadrant of the nation, has most of the nations leading universities because they were mostly established before the rest of the nation became settled and populated, and numerous other common factors that aren't the result of political ideology.

    Now, a side effect of all of those factors may well be a more liberal population but that does not make a statement like yours particularly valid.
    Urist, BG45, legionare and 3 others like this.
  10. I'd also like to point out the all-too-common shenanigans with all the graphs shown - namely the chopping off of the bottom nine-tenths of the Y axis to make the variations look bigger.
  11. Fell

    Fell The Fattest Santa Temp Banned

    Tippy be hella mad.

    Oh, and saying "Oh it's a small/poor/historically unfortunate state" doesn't change the fact that it's full of conservatives who vote against their own interests out of stupidity or credulity.
  12. Zelinko

    Zelinko IT'S FAIRY TIME!

    Well if you didn't the variations would be really small and harder to see (except the national debt one) that one requires more scale differences to get it to work.

    Does Logarithmic charting work better for that or just scaling to less pixels/billion?
  13. Humphnaegal

    Humphnaegal There's nowhere to run

    Isn't the Clinton surplus story more complicated than that? Wasn't it something like paying off public debt with intragovernmental debt?
  14. Not really, just pointed out all of the flaws.

    What reality is is not the issue in dispute, why it is that way is the issue in dispute. The OP made the implied claim that being liberal means that you are wealthier, better educated, and healthier. He looked at a single factor and not the whole situation and circumstances.

    Then there is the fact that the OP was using highly flawed "facts" for a chunk of his claims.

    It's quite complicated, you could write a thousand page doctoral thesis on the whys of that surplus and how much Clinton's actions created (or depressed) it; and you would still barely scratch the surface.
  15. You'll note also that Spending "fell" under Clinton, but only as % GDP. Clinton was president during a fantastic economy, something none of the other people have been, which gave him a drastically different set of circumstances to work with.
  16. Precisely my point. This issue is sometimes dealt with by putting a zero at the origin and a very obvious break mark (Z-shaped, normally) on the Y axis and also sometimes on the bars of the graph - thus making it reasonably clear that most of the graph is omitted. These graphs don't even have that.
  17. Fell

    Fell The Fattest Santa Temp Banned

    Being liberal doesn't make you wealthier, healthier, and more educated. Being all of those things makes you liberal.

    Mostly because it's easy to understand how politics actually affects you when you aren't packing the kids off to jesus camp so you can watch TLC reality shows and drink Bud Light.
    Seto-fan1 and TheLastOne like this.
  18. Zelinko

    Zelinko IT'S FAIRY TIME!

    And Strawman season is open. I need to get some for my Halloween display. Actually any tips on the best way to deploy them around my house?
    TWPC920, Darth Sonic, BG45 and 6 others like this.
  19. No, it actually doesn't. Being well educated tends to make you wealthier and healthier. Being healthy tends to make you wealthier. Being wealthy tends to make you better educated. These metrics are all intertwined (along with a ton of other metrics).

    One such is that the majority of college professors and teachers are very liberal (this has occurred for various reasons) and it has, in large part, reached the point of selection bias (the people choosing new college professors are liberal and are more likely to higher liberals, the people remaining in academia tend to be liberal, etc.). A side effect of this is that most college education is slanted with a liberal bias. Often times the bias is unintentional and quite subtle (diction, facial expressions, time devoted to a topic, book choice, etc.); and often it is quite open.
  20. Hectonkhyres

    Hectonkhyres Why is there all this WORLD here?

    Um. Why is this thread here again?
  21. Because the OP wanted to wow us all with his ability to good some picture and figures?
  22. Hectonkhyres

    Hectonkhyres Why is there all this WORLD here?

    Yeah. I'm just not sure what we are actually supposed to debate.
  23. How much we like his pictures and figures I suppose.
  24. Zelinko

    Zelinko IT'S FAIRY TIME!

    Chart layouts.

    Horizontal bars versus Vertical bars.
    Start from Zero scales versus start from near the top.
    Favorite chart styles.
    Pie Graphs vs Bar Graphs.
  25. Humphnaegal

    Humphnaegal There's nowhere to run

    Scientists are more liberal. Okay. But the rich are also more liberal?