ZnT: Back to Basics #5 (LN Canon, Ideas/General Discussion etc)

Discussion in 'The Index' started by Flere821, Mar 28, 2012.

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  1. Flere821

    Flere821 Amicus

    Hello all, and welcome to Thread #5 of 'ZnT: Back to Basics'. Here is a place for anything to solely to do with the 'Zero no Tsukaima' (A.K.A 'Familiar of Zero') series. Canon discussion/clarification, story ideas, anything about ZnT goes since we didn't have that much trouble with such a broad range of topics in the previous thread/s.

    For crossover ideas, you might want to head to the Familiar Summoning thread. Story posts can go either here or there, though I won't be archiving any story posts here.

    If anyone has questions to ask about Light Novel canon, feel free to do so in this thread. I'll get back to you in maybe 1-2 days at most (Real Life's been piling up things on me :() , if someone else doesn't answer first. Questions that is asked repeatedly here will have their own spot on this post, below the LN summaries.

    Previous Threads:



    Table of Contents

    Light Novel Summaries (Includes main LNs canon, Tabitha Side Stories (TSS), and Karin Side Stories (KSS))
    Laconic Summaries (Credit to Felix3D)
    Map of Helkeginia

    #1 Void Familiar abilities and names, extra info on Lifdrasil in a separate link.
    #1.5 Explanation of Gandalfr abilities

    #2 Definition of Karin's "Rule of Steel"

    #3 Magical capability of humans in Brimir's time (about 6,000 years prior to Louise's summoning)

    #4 Void Magic does not have Dot/Line/Triangle/Square distinctions
    #4.5 There are further distinctions in Void magic

    #5 'Hexagon' magic (really, that's a misnomer...)

    #6 Reconquista's Backers and driving goals (for those who write past Guiche's duel and Foquet robbing the Academy vault)

    #7 Relationship between Tiffania and Foquet/Matilda (They're not blood related)

    #8 Windstones Catastrophe (the reason behind Vittorio wanting to genocide the elves)
    #8.5 The extent of the damage of the Windstone Catastrophe

    #9 Karin the Heavy Wind's magical prowress compared to other ZnT human mages

    #10 Specific of Cattleya's illness

    #11 General explanation on ZnT human (non-Void) elemental magic
    (Includes Affinity, Level, and Willpower explanations)

    #12 Karin is NOT the parent-from-hell ZnT fanon makes her out to be.

    #13 ZnT LN Canon info about Yosette (AKA on SB as 'Tabiclone')

    #14 Modern Earth Weapons in Halkeginia

    #15 A (short) list of what we know about Brimir 6,000 years prior in-setting

    BakaTsuki's LN infodump

    Tech level in Helkeginia (mainly 1600's Earth level for Helkeginia, and for elves post-1600, pre-1900 Ottoman Empire-esque)
    List of Earth weapons that dropped into Helkeginia, listed by chronological order.

    Bestiary (List of non-human creatures in ZnT)

    List of Spells (To be completed later)

    Elven spell 'Counter' details

    Void Items

    Military capability of ZnT canon nations

    King Joseph's motivation for fighting other Void mages and launching multiple wars (Extract of Vol15 Ch9, courtesy of Flere821's translation from Chinese version)

    Number of days in the world of Helkeginia

    Calendar related LN info

    How the Musketeer Squad got established

    Brief History of Romalia, and Analysis of Romalia's Influence in Halkeginia

    Valliere Family being related to the Tristain Royalty

    Montmorency family being Tristain Crown's negotiator to the Ragdorian Lake Water Spirit

    Tristain Currency
    For English translations of ZnT LNs, the best source thus far is BakaTsuki.
    For Chinese translations of ZnT LNs, see here.

    Light Novel Summaries:
    Volume 8-15: http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=5868547&postcount=1043

    Volume 16-18: http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=5868548&postcount=1044

    Volume 19-20: (credit to Serenade_Beta of AnimeSuki forums) http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=6773037&postcount=287

    Laconic Summaries: (Credit to Felix3D)
    Volume 1: Ch1 Ch2 Ch3 Ch4 Ch5 Ch6

    Timeline for ZnT LNs (up to Volume 5, credit to ratiotile): Here.

    Summary for Karin Side Stories:
    Vol1) http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=6467677&postcount=143
    Vol2) http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=6478893&postcount=157

    Summary for Tabitha Side Stories:
    Vol1) http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=6451643&postcount=124
    Vol2 and 3) http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=6452734&postcount=131

    'Wardrobe to the Past' SS Summary

    Map of Helkeginia

    Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs):

    FAQ #1: Info on the Heart of God, aka Lifdrasil: here
    #1.1 - Familiar names/powers
    Gandalfr, Left Hand of God (also known as Shield of God), Master of using weapons.

    Windalfr, Right Hand of God (also known as Flute of God), Master of controlling non-humanoid animals. Intelligence does not influence control of the creature. eg, can control Rhyme dragons but not elves.

    Myoznitnirn, Mind of God (Also known as Book of God), Master of using/making magical artefacts.

    #1.5 Extent/Limits of Gandalfr abilities:
    Light Novel Vol1 Ch8 is ambiguous on whether only weapons made for combat activates the runes, or the gold sword is a ripoff and doesn't count as a weapon at all. I say there's room for argument and depends on the fanfic writer's interpretation.

    The SpaceBattles 'meme' of 'Saito killing people with a teacup' is FALSE, and has never occurred in canon. Impromptu weapons like a breadknife being used as a dagger/throwing knife by a Gandalfr has not happened in LN canon, so again it's up to fanfic authors to decide.

    Vol15 Ch2 stated Saito can only access the Gandalfr boost for a certain amount of time in a day. After that the runes does not activate (out of power), even when holding a weapon. Whether there's a certain amount of time before power returns or the power resets after the day ends is not specified.

    Vol17 Ch3 has Saito recreating Battoujutsu (AKA Iaijutsu or 'Quick-draw technique', a method of drawing your katana to cut something then returning it to the sheathe faster than the naked eye can capture the movement), and using it as a method of meditation. With one slash four woodle poles surrounding Saito are cut down, suggesting near-mastery of the technique is accomplished (nowhere near as overpowering as what you might see in 'Rurouni Kenshin' however). Nonetheless, this technique was never used in combat after this chapter in LN canon.
    From this, it's entirely possible for a Gandalfr to recreate weapon styles as long as it's physically possible, and the Gandalfr has knowledge of the existence of said style/s.

    FAQ #2: Karin's Rule of Steel
    Vol11 Ch2&3 - Karin's Rule of Steel means 'follow the rules' and don't go against the right to rule given to monarchs by the Founder. She hates rule-breakers.

    FAQ #3: Magical capability of humans in Brimir's time (about 6,000 years prior to Louise summoning Saito)
    6,000 years ago, a ten-year old would have just started being a Line mage (the girl in question was a Wind mage, just starting on Fire), as compared to current-day when at 10 if you can cast multiple spells you're seen as a prodigy.

    Though by adulthood every mage would have been square class, and capable in casting in ALL four elements. Ten of them once held off a arrow-rain launched by a army more greater than the one from Saxe-Gotha (in numbers, equipment and strength - this is the Valiag/Daliaku we're talking about, the race that almost drove elves and humans to extinction and infamous to the point they struck fear into all of their enemies) long enough for Brimir to cast a Explosion that decimated the opposing army.

    FAQ #4: Void Magic Does NOT Have Dot/Line/Triangle/Square distinctions
    FAQ #4.5 There are further distinctions in Void magic

    FAQ #5: 'Hexagon' Magic:
    Stacking a element more than Four times is impossible for any Helkeginian human. The 'Hexagon' magic is combining two Triangle spells from two different casters, with the end result being a Square-class level spell stronger than what a average Square mage can cast. This is a 'secret technique' passed down the Albion and Tristain royal families, which suggests non-royalty mages can pull this off if they were taught the technique.

    A similar 'secret technique' is found in the Romalian Church Knights, where about a dozen Line-class mages combine their power to perform a spell on the same level of Square-class magic.

    FAQ#6: Reconquista's Backers and driving goals
    Reconquista had enough of the various Royal families' incompetence and wishes to have nobles be the ruling power rather than royalty. Part of their justification for overthrowing the royalty and the Church (possibly due to how the Head of Church, ie the Pope, is also the ruler of Romalia) are they're letting heathens controlling the Holy Land, so they're following Brimir's will in launching a crusade to take it back, and they're uniting Helkeginia for this goal.

    That's the 'official' reasons anyway. In actuality it's Sheffield controlling Cromwell (Cromwell's actually useless without Sheffield's help), which in turn Sheffield is acting under Gallia's King Joseph in creating turmoil in Albion. Joseph's reason for helping Reconquista is to obtain the Founder's Music Box, a Void item belonging to Albion (like how the Prayer Book is Tristain's treasure) and he's willing to start a war to obtain it. Cromwell at Londinium was blasted into smithereens by a Gallian Airfleet, which Cromwell had let them approach as he thought they were aid promised by Sheffield. Soon after Londinium is under Gallian control Joseph obtained the Music Box.

    The reason for Joseph wanting the Music Box is when all Four Void items are gathered along with the Four rings, Four Void familiars and Four Void mages Brimir's Void will awaken (ref Vol8 Ch8). Joseph apparently does not know about the four Void items resonating to activate the Genocide ritual using Lifdrasil.

    After Joseph got the Music Box, he let Germania and Tristain squabble over the political and economic benefits of controlling Albion as he got what he came for. Gallia took one of the major Ports as helping to end the war, but Henrietta knew even for a 'mad king' Joseph is known as he asked for too little for his part in the war.

    FAQ #7: Relation between Tifa and Foquet/Matilda
    Tiffania might call Matilda 'Onee-san', but they're not related by blood. Vol11 Ch9 reveals Matilda/Foquet is older, and her family served Tiffania's (a viceroy of the Archduke of Albion). Tifa only calls Matilda that out of familiarity, not out of actual relation.

    FAQ #8: Windstone Catastrophe
    Within a few decades, or worst case scenario in 2-3 years, Windstone deposits under Helkeginia will reach critical levels and landmass will rise up out of the ground and float away. The Windstones keeping them airborne could be used up any moment and send the floating land dropping back down. This is a phenomenon that will occur across half of Helkeginia, resulting in death when land violently rises up and dropping back down. The limited resources will also force humans to fight one another, as there will be survivors but not enough for the remaining half of Helkeginia to support.

    Vittorio wasn't afraid of the disaster directly ending the humans of Helkeginia, he's afraid of infighting between humans after the majority gets wiped out and their civilisation/culture effectively ends. Not that humans down to the last man, woman or child dies in the ensuing 'apocalypse'. Even in the worst case scenario humanity will survive, if barely and risk disappearing like a candle fluttering in the wind. Hence his plan of genociding the elves and move the humans to the Sahara to avoid the problem.

    #8.5: Extent of the Windstone Catastrophe's damage
    Canonically, the Windstones only affect the continent of Helkeginia. Sahara desert will be immune to its effects, possibly due to the elves' superior mining techniques (or maybe their ability to make pacts with spirits which use up the magic, no explicit explantion given in the LNs). Given a few decades or a few centuries the elves might be able to save Helkeginia by mining out the Windstones, but with the worst case scenario of the Catastrophe happening within 2-3 years instead of maybe 10 years at best, the elves don't have the time. Even then the Windstones will only tear up half of the landmass of Helkeginia.

    FAQ #9: Karin the Heavy Wind's magical prowess compared to other human mages
    Karin, in the main LN canon known also as Duchess Valliere, is known as the Strongest Wind magic user in Tristain's history. Her wind spells are stronger than most mages magic, and her affinity to Wind is so close that she only needs 20% of the normal incantation to achieve the same effects as other mages. At 100% incantation only Void spells and high level Firstborn/Spirit magic surpass Karin's destructive power.

    Karin's fighting style is very flexible; according to the KSS she's shown to just blow opponents away using brute strength (due to superior attack power to just about every other non-Void mage), to casting a increase-speed spell on herself and match evenly with about 20 other mage knights using only her speed-enhanced reflexes and her wandsword. (when using the wind spell 'levitate/flight' or 'haste' (different from the Void version), the mage cannot use any other spells when it is active; hence Karin's limited to her wandsword)

    She prefers head on fights and using her prodigous magical power to overpower her opponents as fast as feasibly possible, as compared to using indirect attacks/tricks/traps to cut her opponent down. Close combat or casting from distance doesn't matter for her, she's a master at both and shows no preferance to closing in or keeping away from her opponent.
    In Karin's youth (KSS-period) she's the kind to 'fight first, ask questions later', but by current-day (Main LN) she has got rid of that mentality (somewhat). Also, now she has the 'Rule of Steel', in direct contrast with how she was relatively more rebellious 30 years ago (towards her comrades; definitely not towards the Tristainian Royal Family as even back then Karin is unfailingly loyal to the Tristainian Royal Family).

    Her signature move is her 'Heavy Wind' (translation differs, alternatively it can be 'Hurricane', 'Tornado', or some other impressive sounding Wind phenomenon) a Square class spell. By current-day (Vol11 Ch3) she has improved her spell by lacing powerful vacuum blades into her Heavy Wind attack, and not even Derflinger can absorb the vacuum blades fast enough before they cut into Saito.

    The only 'downside' to her magic is that it's too powerful. Karin held back as much as possible in Vol11 Ch2, and she still blows the entire side of the lounge into shreds as she tried casting.

    Karin is also the ONLY human mage to date in ZnT that's explicitly described in the narrative that can cast spells without incantations (she still needed a wand though). Though that's limited to the spell she's most familiar with (ie, the Heavy Wind) and only in cases when she's sufficiently emotional (in the KSS it happened once, when she's 'tsun'-ing at Louise levels about Centurion's comment of her flat chest).

    FAQ #10: Specifics of Cattleya's illness
    The symptoms from are stated in Vol6 Ch2: Weak body and violent coughing. Ch3 has her coughly a lot after casting a alchemy spell, so magic for a extended period of time is out of the question normally. Louise noted Cattleya is a skilled mage, which is likely Triangle or even Square class.
    Hypothesis Cattleya's condition is based upon a infection.

    Ch2, Cattleya's body has places that shows other symptoms and needs treatment, but if they're treated with medicine or magic the symptoms merely show up elsewhere on her body. That happened so many times the doctors gave up and settled for ways to reduce the symptoms. The doctors also say there's something 'fundementally wrong with the basis of her body'; which suggests it might be genetic?

    FAQ#11: General explanation on human (non-Void) elemental magic
    Willpower Cost
    Willpower can also be recovered by intense emotions, eg Vol11 Ch10.

    Affinity affects how easily a elemental spell can be cast (ie, faster casting time or lower willpower cost), and power of the spell. For example, Karin's affinity allows her to cast any Wind spell using only 20% of the usual incantation to achieve the normal power. A Fire mage would have a stronger flame attack than if he/she casted using another element, assuming the stack size are the same.
    Affinity in one element does not stop the mage in casting in another element. For example, Vol1 Ch1 with everyone in the class casting Wind spell of flight, and TSS with Tabitha transmuting earth into oil (Vampire chapter).

    Stack size on the other hand affect the complexity of the spell (which isn't necessarily the same as power/strength - Colbert's Earth-Earth-Fire air-to-fuel alchemy spell is Triangle, but alone can't match a Triangle water attack), but indirectly affects the power of the spell too (eg, a Fireball with one Fire is less powerful than a Fireball with three Fire, disregarding with three Fire you can launch a better attack than just a fireball).

    It's possible for mages to have multiple element affinities. TSS have a Gallian mage knight with dual affinity, Fire and Water, while Tabitha in the main LNs has Water affinity to a lesser extent compared to her Wind.

    I'm using the word 'Affinity' for a lack of better words, it's not outright defined as 'affinity' in the LNs. These mechanics aren't explicitly stated in the LNs as a infodump section as far as I know.

    Spell/Mage level (Dot, Line, Triangle, and Square)
    'Pentagon' spell level does not exist. A mage at the maximum can only chain 4 elemental units to make a spell, hence Square. 'Hexagon' is a misnomer, since it's a combination of two Triangle spells to create a upper-tier Square spell (eg Zombie!Wales + Henrietta combination = Colbert or Tabitha if one of them throws everything he/she has into one spell). It's only called hexagon because a shape with 6 sides is normally called Hexagon, and two Triangles make six sides in total.

    Power of a spell depending on a few things: number of elemental units used (1-4), affinity of a mage (eg, Fire mage with Wind spell < Fire mage with Fire spell), and how the spell matrix is combined. Fire-Wind-Fire-Wind has different effect to Fire-Fire-Wind-Wind, even if the same elements are used.
    For example, Vol6 Ch8 has Colbert with his air-to-fuel spell, Fire-Fire-Earth. Depending on where the Earth unit is placed a different effect can happen, such as the water vapour being transmuted into something else if it was Earth-Fire-Fire or Fire-Earth-Fire.

    Each 'segment' is replaceable with any element, not fixed. Going up in rank (eg Line -> Triangle) merely means you can now combine more elements than before, like a extra slot available for combination - NOT only as a extra piece to use in a combination.

    For example, Colbert can use a air-to-fuel alchemy spell, Fire-Fire-Earth. Then he uses the 'Flame Snake' later in the series, Fire-Fire-Fire-Fire. Or from TSS, Tabitha as a Wind mage can use dot-Earth spell alchemy. A Dot spell in theory can be casted by any mage, regardless of affinity (except Void, but that one plays by a whole different set of rules). Such as the Undine Knights all can cast Dot-level alchemy when trying to dig into the girls' baths in Vol12.

    FAQ #12: Karin's not the parent-from-hell fanon makes her out to be
    A conversation on SB recorded by Felix3D, reposted here.

    FAQ #13: ZnT LN Canon info about Yosette (AKA on SB as 'Tabiclone')
    -Yosette is Tabitha's twin sister. Void mage of Gallia after Joseph's death.
    -Lived in a monastery all her life. No clue she was even a mage.
    -Found by Julio after he visited every monastery in Halk chasing up the leads Tabitha wasn't a only child. He then spent a few weeks on and off sweet-talking Yosette into working for him and by extension Romalia.
    -Romalia replaced Tabitha and enthroned Yosette as a double, and emotionally blackmailing Tabitha's mother into accepting this for the sake of the daughter she abandoned for 15-6 years.
    -Yosette truly loves Julio, though she's convinced Julio is only with her to shackle her to Vittorio's plans. She doesn't care, not if it means Julio would be with her. Julio is conflicted by this as somewhere along the line he fell in love with Yosette too but can never convince her of it. Julio has a grudge against Saito because of this, at least the idiot can openly declare his love to Louise and be believed he's sincere (this is Vol18, no more reset buttons for romcom rubbish 'harem comedy'). Grudge resolved by end of Vol18.
    -Post Saito's kidnapping, Yosette tried to summon a familiar. Dead set on summoning on Julio as proof of her love, and was going to blow her brains out with a gun if she failed. She succeeded.
    -As a void mage, Yosette's said to be more powerful than Louise by Vittorio (hence this piece of info is highly suspect). Yosette has yet to cast a spell 'on-screen' in the LNs, though unlikely to happen now due to author death.

    FAQ #14 Modern Earth Weapons in Halkeginia: See here.

    FAQ #15 A (short) list of what we know about Brimir 6,000 years prior in-setting: See here.

    BakaTsuki's LN Info: Here, though it does have minor mistakes at places and is not up to date with most recent volume.

    According to EarthScorpion (here, and here) Helkeginia has equivalent to 1600s Earth tech. This is based on what the narrative of Volume 7 of the LNs described when Tristain and Germania invaded Albion

    Earth Tech that dropped into Helkeginia:
    1) 'Staff of Destruction', ie a M72 rocket launcher. (Vol1)

    2) 'Dragon's Raiment', ie the Zero Fighter. (Vol3)

    3) A German 'Tiger Tank' (Vol14)
    3a) Vol14 Ch6: Romalia's stash of Earth weapons also include: England-made rifles, Russian AK-47s (and other AK series or something like that; I don't know much about guns), swords and spears of varying eras, shurikens, katanas, a cannon, half a fighter plane, missile launchers, and finally the aforementioned Tiger Tank.
    The guns was enchanted so they won't fall apart if left alone for a long period of time, but they're not in a good condition to begin with. Romalia's stash was taken from scavenging trips into the Sahara for the past few hundred years, which the elves notice from time to time as the weapons are lying close to the 'Holy Land'.
    Romalia have been gathering weapons for the day a Gandalfr rises again; not enough for "a whole army", just the Gandalfr.
    The Left hand of a Gandalfr wields a Sword that protects his/her master, while the Right hand of a Gandalfr weilds the Spear. A 'Spear' was the strongest weapon 6,000 years ago, and is also a synonym for a mundane, non-magical weapon that can attack targets further that what a sword can reach. Spears eventually evolved into muskets and cannons as time passed, and this point comes up again in Vol20.

    4) A Russian nuclear submarine, 120m long. the submarine itself has rusted away and is unusable, the nuclear reactor is also gone (or just didn't get transported into Helkeginia).
    The IMPORTANT thing however is the cargo; nuclear ICBMs, with the launching mechanisms apparently intact. The chapter (Vol20 Ch3) is aptly named 'The Final Spear'.

    4a) Vol20 Ch5: The 'Holy Land', which after 6,000 years have turned into a archipelago out at sea, is also filled with Earth weaponry. However due to being at sea most of them get rusted quickly. Tanks, fighter jets, rifles, cannons... many more times than what Romalia have.
    There's a few that have been waterproofed or stored in waterproof bags. Mostly ammunition, grenades and rocket launchers.
    There's also a recent addition: a version of a US Navy scout ship that came out within the last few years, 10m long, a gun at the front end, and with a full gauge of fuel.

    Bestiary: Here

    List of Spells shown in the LNs (Not yet complete):
    By element:
    Water (Unfinished)
    Earth (Unfinished)
    Fire (Unfinished)
    Wind (Unfinished)

    By Volume:
    Volume 1 Part 1 Part 2 (Credit to Murazor)
    Volume 2 Part 1 Part 2 (Credit to Murazor)
    Volume 3 Here (Credit to Murazor)
    Volume 4 Here (Credit to Murazor)

    Elven spell 'Counter' details
    Counter, first used by Bidashal in Vol10 Ch10, is a high tier defence spell that reflects physical attacks and nullifies magical attacks below a level of power. Normally only a Elder/Senator level elf, above even normal elven knights, can use this spell. However, Sheffield as Myoznitnirn have managed to enchant the Jormungand Golems with Counter as part of its armour protection, possibly with Bidashal's aid (Vol11 Ch8, Vol14). Brute force equal to a tank round (Tiger Tank II) is needed to penetrate Counter.

    Void Items
    Four rings - Water Ruby, Fire Ruby, Earth Ruby, Wind Ruby, as per the 4 non-Void elements. Along with the rings, each Brimiric nation holds a item of the Void, also called 'Founder's Treasure'.
    Tristain possesses the Founder's Prayer Book, that records Void spells, Void magic theory and Brimir's will to his successors.
    Albion has the Music Box, which plays a song only Void mages can hear if they also have the ring.
    Gallia have the Incense Burner, which its current use is unknown from the LNs.
    Romalia have the Round Mirror, that allows the user to look into the past and see Brimir's life. This is so they can follow in his footstep and finish what he has started.

    When the four rings and the four treasures are gathered along with four Void mage and four Void familiars, it is said Brimir's Void will 'awaken' (ref Vol8 Ch8). This has yet to happen as of Vol20.

    Military capability of ZnT canon:

    Gallia had the two largest airships in Helkeginia, before Joseph nuked it in seconds using Firestones. Before that Gallia also sent it's Air Force to attack Romalia, and has at least two fleet of airships (in total of 120 ships in just two fleets). One of the fleets was dedicated to transporting the Jormungandr golems (ref Vol14 Ch6). After Tabitha stood up and declared war on Joseph the rest of the Gallian airship fleet followed her and was similarly wiped out by Joseph and his Firestones.

    Romalia has newer models of airships compared to other nations, but they only have 40 ships in total. The fleet took heavy damage against Gallia's initial assualt on Romalia in Vol14, with the Jormungandrs jumping high enough to reach them and drag them down to feast on their Windstone supply. (They can also levitate if necessary).

    Germania's fleet is about the same as Tristain's, but both of them alone are weaker than Albion's. (Vol3 Ch9)

    Albion's fleet has better cannons compared to Germania, and the number of ships unspecified. All of it was destroyed by Louise at Tarbes. The Albion Dragon knights available then was enough to match Tristain's entire airborne knights, and this was probably no more than half (at most) of the Dragon knights Albion have.

    Additional info on Albion's air force, such as the number of airships in Albion, here.

    Apart from airships, the dragon/manticore/griffin knights make up the air force of any nation. Albion specialises in dragons, but not much else is said on the knights.
    In Tristain, the Dragon Knights belong the the military, while the Manticore and Griffin Knights corps belong to the Royal Guard and under the monarch's control.

    The elves' dragon knights are far superior to Helkeginia's though. So is their airfleet, 1.5x faster that any ships humans made, and it's pulled by dragons. And better artillery, consisting of autocannon turrets that can fire eight shots before reload. Humans have more airships however, the elves doesn't have the means to mass produce like humans can. Hence quality over quantity

    The elven army. Every elven citizen is required to go through military training at a certain age. Everyone can do things like thunder-fist, terraforming on a small scale (small like a oasis or the Valliere manor), command plants and various elements like wind, earth and fire. A bit higher gets you the equivalent of knights that can cast more effectively/efficiently, and can use spells like sleeping mist or forge sentient swords (eg Derflinger, and a set of five scimitars which can fly and can use telepathy).
    Highest level would be Bidashal, as far above normal elves like how Square mages are far above Dot mages. Only the highest tier elven mages can use counter or enchant things with counter.

    Joseph's motivation in launching wars and fighting everyone in Helkeginia:
    Extract from Volume 15 Ch9, translated by me:
    This is in the final battle against Joseph, right after he incinerated a fleet with one of his Firestones.

    Number of days in the world of Helkeginia
    See here: http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=7186300&postcount=284 - and also Vol12 Ch5.

    Calendar related LN info - Link here.

    How the Musketeer Squad got established: Here, and also read the rest of the page for analysis.

    Brief History of Romalia, and Analysis of Romalia's Influence in Halkeginia: Vol13 Ch1

    Mazarin's position as next-to-be Pope prior to declining the position: ref Vol13 Ch1
    Valliere Family being related to the Tristain Royalty: Vol4 Ch2, one of their ancestors were a illegitimate child of a Tristainian Monarch, hence their Dukedom.

    Montmorency family being Tristain Crown's negotiator to the Ragdorian Lake Water Spirit: Vol4 Ch6

    Tristain Currency

    Elves' POV on Halkeginia's Windstone Catastrophe
  2. ILurkNoMoar

    ILurkNoMoar Headlock of Love~

    Something just popped into my head. Derf is a steel sword, right and hasn't changed vessels since he was forged by Sasha. But, IIRC the elves didn't have steel age technology yet so does that mean that he was a Valiag sword that she picked up along the way at some point? Then did what ever spirit magic needed to create him.
  3. Eveonder

    Eveonder Null Entity

    Can anyone make use of firestones? Or does it require some magic to release the energy properly? Since... throwing one does... well that.
  4. Hassam


    What exactly are water stones capable of doing, can they control water from afar?
  5. Emy

    Emy Solidarity

    Do we have any good pictures/description of the vault/building where the Staff of Destruction was stored? All I remember from the LN is that it's strong and in the right place to get hit with a Louise-style kaboom. I'm not opposed to making something up, but I'd like to figure out if the canon building works for my purposes or if I need to invent something.
  6. Flere821

    Flere821 Amicus


    Sasha forged Derflinger herself, and Derf's first memory is being wielded in battle by Sasha. How advanced the elves are 6,000 years ago I don't know, but judging from Sasha's behaviour around Brimir it was at least more advanced than the humans of the time.
    The elves can make use of Firestones, using it for heating or energy sources. It's not too common though since A) it takes a lot of effort to make from scratch, Bidashal is like the upper tier of elves and it still took him a while; and B) digging for them is troublesome even for elves, they're far deeper underground than Windstones - they could do it, but they deem it not worth the effort.
    Healing and necromancy is what can think of off the top of my head right now. Control water is possibly only something Sheffield could do with the Waterstones since she has her Myoz familiar runes.
    If the description isn't in the first 3-5 LN volumes, it's not in the LNs IIRC. I personally can't remember any detailed description of the vault right now.

    If you really want to see what the vault looks like, I'd suggest the anime or the manga. If you don't watch it for the butchered plot it might be bearable >.>
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  7. Hassam


    If I remember correctly you can make an artificial intelligence using earth stones, also rockets were around during the early modern era. So if you put the two together you should be able to create guided missiles, granted they would be very crude and have a limited range however they could become extremely effective anti-air ship weapons. Anyhow the question here was do you think it's possible.
  8. mdkcde

    mdkcde "Ah Kos... some say Kosmog"

    Colbert DID make Magic Seeking Missiles for Saito for the Zero when he ran out of Bullets.
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  9. Tiresias

    Tiresias Pendekar 212

    Rockets already existed way back. Using it as an AA weapon, however, is pretty much impossible considering its accuracy is pathetic even against ground targets - against air units which are generally faster and has more room to dodge unguided rockets won't do much. The (extremely crude) earth stones 'guidance chips', if you call it, won't help much without the appropriate flight systems (vectored thrust, wings, fins, etc) whose basic principles are way too advanced for current Halk tech. The cost needed for R&D of Halkegenian stinger missiles will probably bankrupt a country before it yields any tangible results.

    There's a reason people still generally use flak guns for AA purposes even during WWII.

    EDIT: Any specs on Colbert's missiles? Range, warhead, maneuverability etc? (I didn't count on Colbert, who can make a flying steamship ON A CAVE! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!)
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  10. Jonen C

    Jonen C F.M.D.G. Arbiter

    Nitpick: Rockets in AAA roles?

    Used way, way before we had effective guidance. See, there's the fact that they're nicely flammable, but expend most of it on the way up, so makes for good secondary effects if you can hit your target (v. useful against balloons), with not much damage on the ground if you miss. That is if you hit. Couple of tricks for that.
    1. Unlike a shell, you can design a rocket to have a flight path which is not straight. A spiraling rocket covers a lot of volume... Though usually this just means you're doing a whole lot of missing. Which is where 2 comes in:
    2. Saturation. See, what you do is you take a whole lot of rockets and launch them at the target in the hopes something sticks.

    Of course, 1 requires a basic understanding of rocketry, and 2 usually requires industrial scale mass production of rockets.

    That said, they're pretty much ineffective as anything other than temporary airspace denial (you'd have to find an unusually crazy pilot to willingly fly into the effective range of an enemy AD rocket battery - guidance or no, it's the shrapnel addressed "occupant" you need to worry about).
  11. Any illustrations of that? Did they make any for the LN?

    Do Colberts invention get official recognition from Henrietta or anyone with power? I know his ship did but the others?
  12. Tiresias

    Tiresias Pendekar 212

    Wait, are we talking about surface-to-air missiles or air-to-air ones? Because the earliest SAM's are used in WWII, and the only unguided ground-to-air rocket I could recall is the Fliegerfaust, also from WWII.

    I'm also surprised that Colbert would make weapons at all, considering his "atoning ex-soldier" personality
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  13. Hassam


    With the help of the earth stones Helk can have effective guidance system for missiles centuries before we figured it out. You see the rocket itself would be the golem. Rather than having arms and legs like traditional golems it would have fins and wings which it could move around in order to change it trajectory. The benefit of this is that it significantly lowers the possibility of one of the missiles from targeting a friendly.
  14. mdkcde

    mdkcde "Ah Kos... some say Kosmog"

    I wonder how much earthstone would it take to make a simple intelligence for a guidance system.

    If the only objective is to "Target Foes" it might be even possible for Earthmages to create a golem consciousness inside the missile. It wouldn't last as long and it would probably take too much willpower, but It might be useful in desperate situations.

    Wait, don't they already have those Alviss things that Eartmages can make? That's your guidance system right there.

    Now I'm imagining tiny R2-D2like golems piloting the missiles like Kamikaze pilots.... ;_;
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  15. Tiresias

    Tiresias Pendekar 212

    I...honestly doubt that their craftsmanship are precise enough to mold the rockets into the fine details, especially regarding the fins. And even if it is somehow made possible, there are other problems: a)this being a pre-industrial era story, so there won't be many of them existing and production would be too slow, and b)I don't know the exact minimum level of earth magic skill required to make normal golems, but it is certainly a high-level skill, again hampering the prospect of mass production due to the limited number of people that can make them.
  16. Hassam


    Just how fast are the airships and how large would a missile need to be in order to do significant damage.

    evidently they can make rockets seeing as Colbert has already made some, although mass production would be extremely difficult.

    Also apparently we had multi stage rockets as early as the 16th century
  17. mdkcde

    mdkcde "Ah Kos... some say Kosmog"

    You don't need to make the whole rocket with Magic.

    Just animate the guidance system, the parts that move the fins.

    You know about Guiche's golems? He's a Dot level mage and he builds his Golems from scratch.
    Colbert doesn't even have a strong Earth affinity, but he still made the missiles... I think. I'm not sure now since I can't find the source.
  18. Tiresias

    Tiresias Pendekar 212

    Since they don't have modern high-explosives they would have to compensate by making the warhead bigger than real life AA missiles. I don't know how fast dragons are but they're slower than the Zero fighter so... you need to compare with something that can intercept targets at helicopter speed I guess? Then what you have will probably an enlarged stinger missile warhead or something.

    Wait, I forgot one thing. Their fuel is also primitive, if there's any, which means increased fuel compartment to reach the flying targets. So probably even bigger.

    Of course, as said before Halkegenian understanding of rocketry and aerodynamics is insufficient to make an effective guided missile, even before considering the feasibility of mass production.

    The guidance system is probably the most complex part of the proposed rocket, again casting doubt on how many mages are skilled enough to make the small but intricate parts with the necessary precision.
  19. mdkcde

    mdkcde "Ah Kos... some say Kosmog"

    I think you need to consider getting to the assembly line first before talking about mass production at all.

    I don't really see them getting mass produced, but if Colbert can do it, maybe he could spread the knowledge...


    Now I'm wondering if an Alviss/Golem operated assembly line can be made...
  20. Hassam


    There understanding should not be so poor. We had rockets with considerable range as early as the 1200s (see Roger Bacon).

    While mass production will be difficult it would be no worse than making a large amount of cannons.
  21. mdkcde

    mdkcde "Ah Kos... some say Kosmog"

    Made by hand first, animated later.

    Like the Alviss, If I read correctly the alviss are clockwork like machines that are animated through magic.
  22. Tiresias

    Tiresias Pendekar 212

    Range does not equal accuracy or speed.

    Large amount of cannons? They have the existing foundries for those. Rockets? You're gonna have to make the manufacturers from scratch, diverting the manpower from the cannon makers. Unless the enemy air threat is absurdly great, it is more feasible to stick air denial duty to the Dragon and Griffin Knights while the foundries focus on making cannons to wreck enemy land forces, which is considerably larger than the flyers.

    And unlike cannons, these rockets will need earth mages for the guidance system, and those people aren't many.

    What are the steps of Alviss-making? I need to understand the details to see if the comparison is apt.
  23. Do they even have fireworks? Europe had fireworks in the 1600, didn't they?

    Then again they did pick those up from the Chinese...

    Another difference between our 1600 Europe and Halk.
  24. mdkcde

    mdkcde "Ah Kos... some say Kosmog"

    Europe didn't have a bunch of dickass elves blocking the way to China though.
  25. Hassam


    Even if there are elves in the way they given how old rockets are they should have been able to develop it independently.
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